[Tj3]

Since that isn't Catholic doctrine, we don't need to worry.

Thats Catholic doctrine.

Okay. I trust in the cross. You trust in your denomination. Let me know how that works out for you.

[Akoue]

Akoue,
He did not do that no matter what he claims to have done because he either cannot or refuses to do so.
The evidence is here on this thread that Tj3 has not done so but make the false claim that he has.
Typical of his posting style.
Fred

I know. We've all been waiting, and reminding him, since #13.

[arcura]

De Maria,
That is another superb post by you.
Good works ARE necessary so the bible says in MANY ways and passages.
Fred

[Akoue]

I'm glad that you realize that. Understanding does not come from those who are so arrogant to thing that they are right and anyone who disagrees is a "goofus". that was how the Pharisees viewed their position.

Really? It's the word "goofus" that got under your skin?

[Akoue]

The gospel of Jesus Christ, not mine.


John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NKJV

Right, no salvation without faith. Who denied that we can be saved without faith? Certainly nobody on this thread.

[Tj3]

Right, no salvation without faith. Who denied that we can be saved without faith? Certainly nobody on this thread.

Good. But then there are those who do not trust in Jesus alone, but place their faith in part or in whole on their own works.

[Tj3]

Really? It's the word "goofus" that got under your skin?

Nope. It is the self-righteous attitude that I find offensive.

[Akoue]

Nope. It is the self-righteous attitude that I find offensive.

Okay, no more "goofus", then. And where's that post?

[De Maria]

The gospel of Jesus Christ, not mine.


John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NKJV

But that is just one verse. Believing we must obey.

Romans 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Therefore, if we believe we must be baptized in obedience to Christ's command:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If we believe we must obey Christ's commands:
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If we believe, we must patiently continue in good work:
Romans 2: 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Those who believe are accompanied by works:
Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Only the demons believe without acting upon that belief:

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

We work because we believe:
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

We obey because we believe:
Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Therefore, you are teaching a false gospel because you don't understand what it means to believe.

Sincerely,

[Akoue]

Nope. It is the self-righteous attitude that I find offensive.

I'm not the one telling everyone that he's saved.

[Tj3]

Okay, no more "goofus", then. And where's that post?

So you drop one symptom of the attitude, and somehow that obligates me to search 540 posts for you to find that which you could not care less about yesterday?

[Tj3]

I'm not the one telling everyone that he's saved.

I'm sorry to hear that. I am saved and would be more than willing to share with you how that happens.

[Tj3]

But that is just one verse. Believing we must obey.

It is more than one verse. You need to read what Galatians 3 says about the purpose of the law.

Gal 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV

If you are still under the law, then you have not found yet the purpose of the law.

[De Maria]

Okay. I trust in the cross. You trust in your denomination. Let me know how that works out for you.

You evaded the question. I'll post it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
Not at all - scripture does say that we will be judged by our works.

For those who depend upon anything by the work of the cross for their salvation, they will be judged by their works. One sin and they have condemned themselves because they placed their hope in works.
Since that isn't Catholic doctrine, we don't need to worry.

Quote:
Those who put their faith solely in the cross of Christ will be judge by their works to determine what crowns they will receive, crowns that we will later throw at the feet of Him who alone merits credit even for our good works.

That's Catholic doctrine.

Now, how about those who profess to be faithful but don't do the works which God prepared from the beginning?
__________________

[Akoue]

So you drop one symptom of the attitude, and somehow that obligates me to search 540 posts for you to find that which you could not care less about yesterday?

I'm not asking you to like me. I'm asking you for the number of the post. If you'd rather not provide that, then just explain to me how I got Eph.2.8-9 wrong. What was my mistake?

[De Maria]

It is more than one verse. You need to read what Galatians 3 says about the purpose of the law.

Gal 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV

If you are still under the law, then you have not found yet the purpose of the law.

I've already read it. And its besides the point. Abraham proved his justice because he was obedient before the Law of Moses was even on the radar:

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

[arcura]

Akoue,
Point well made.
It's sad that it will be ignored.
The proof that works are necessary along with faith for salvation is in the bible many times in many passages, but so-called literal bible believers do NOT believe it.
My question is why?
Why do they not believe that works ARE necessary when the bible says that they are.
The only answer I have come up with to that question is that it has taught by the Catholic Church from year one and it is one of the Catholic teachings that is fashionable for fundamentalists to reject.
Fred

[Akoue]

I'm sorry to hear that. I am saved and would be more than willing to share with you how that happens.

How, when you can't even explain to me my error regarding Eph.2.8-9. (Notice I'm not asking you to explain my errors regarding Tituas 3.5. Jn. 3.5. James 2.4-5, etc. I'll set those undischarged promissory notes of yours to one side until you answer the question I've been asking since #13--and which I asked you also on the other thread a couple of weeks ago. You didn't answer it there either.)

[De Maria]

I'm sorry to hear that. I am saved and would be more than willing to share with you how that happens.

We don't want your prescription. God is our Judge.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[Akoue]

The only answer I have come up with to that question is that it has taught by the Catholic Church from year one and it is one of the Catholic teachings that is fashionable for fundamentalists to reject.
Fred

You may be on to something there, Fred.