[Tj3]

Thanks, Acts 2.38 helps my case A LOT. Not only does Acts 10 not say anything about salvation, Act.2.38 says that they should be baptized so that they can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And what do you think that the gift of the Holy Spirit is?

[Akoue]

I knew it before I started. This is a recurrent theme with non-Catholics. Most hold that scriptures are open to private interpretation, thus the meaning becomes subjective to the reader. In short what we see is faith built on how one wills God to react to man. This is in contrast to a faith, such as the Roman Catholic Church built on the objective will of God, One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic faith.

JoeT

Yeah, and I notice he hasn't answered my question about the early Church. It's a shell game.

[Tj3]

They are all scripturally based, they are OF Scripture.

JoeT

If so, then use scripture, not denominational teachings.

[Akoue]

And what do you think that the gift of the Holy Spirit is?

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter. It followed baptism.

[Tj3]

And it says that where, exactly?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can indwell the unsaved?

[Tj3]

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter. It followed baptism.

It does matter. Answer the question - stop avoiding.

[Akoue]

If so, then use scripture, not denominational teachings.

You've said repeatedly on other threads that there were no denominations in the first and second centuries. So why not explain how the early Church Fathers could have got it all so wrong. You know, answer the question I posted just a little bit ago.

[JoeT777]

Yeah, and I notice he hasn't answered my question about the early Church. It's a shell game.

And he won't. It just keeps going round and round and round, ah heck, and around.

JoeT

[Akoue]

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can indwell the unsaved?

I've already told you that I don't know what "indwell" means. Where is it used in Scripture? What's the Greek?

[Tj3]

You've said repeatedly on other threads that there were no denominations in the first and second centuries. So why not explain how the early Church Fathers could have got it all so wrong. You know, answer the question I posted just a little bit ago.

Whether they did or did not get any specific point wrong is of no consequence to me. I am here to discuss scripture. If you want to go on to a different discussion, then you are welcome to do so, but I have no interest in that part of the discussion.

[Tj3]

I've already told you that I don't know what "indwell" means. Where is it used in Scripture? What's the Greek?

I gave you a quote. Or maybe you did not read it. Post 258.

[JoeT777]

If so, then use scripture, not denominational teachings.

So if it ain't in scripture, it ain't? Do I read this correctly?

Then I can conclude you don't drive automobiles, fly in planes, or take trains. These aren't in scripture. Just like you don't believe in the Trinity, correct?

JoeT

[Akoue]

It does matter. Answer the question - stop avoiding.

Acts 2.38ff doesn't say what the gift is. I don't want to read anything into Scripture that isn't there. I'll just accept what is says, otherwise I would be giving it my own private interpretation.

[arcura]

A person can be inspired by the Holy Spirit without being baptized.
But a person who is properly baptized has the Holy Spirit dwell within him or her.
Fred

[Akoue]

So if it ain't in scripture, it ain't? Do I read this correctly?

Then I can conclude you don't drive automobiles, fly in planes, or take trains. These aren't in scripture. Just like you don't believe in the Trinity, correct?

JoeT

I've been thinking about the Trinity too. Thanks for beating me to the punch.

[Tj3]

So if it ain't in scripture, it ain't? Do I read this correctly?

Scripture is the standard of doctrine.

[arcura]

Joe,
Again well said.
Well done.
Fred

[Tj3]

Acts 2.38ff doesn't say what the gift is. I don't want to read anything into Scripture that isn't there. I'll just accept what is says, otherwise I would be giving it my own private interpretation.

So you don't think that Acts 2:38 speaks about salvation. Interesting because your friends use it to as an argument in favour of water baptism being essential for salvation.

[Tj3]

A person can be inspired by the Holy Spirit without being baptized.

Can an unsaved person receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10 is not speaking of inspiration.

But a person who is properly baptized has the Holy Spirit dwell within him or her.

Maybe you should explain the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to Akoue. He does not understand what this means in Christian doctrine.

[JoeT777]

Scripture is the standard of doctrine.

Key words are being used here; I wondered when we would get to this. Who’s "standard of doctrine"? We wouldn't be talking about your "standard of doctrine" would we. Will we be discussing it here?

JoeT