[asking]

Sounds great!

But what's to sleep on? Why start pursuing another girl at this juncture?

Your girlfriend is not seeing this other guy. She's seeing you all the time. She's sleeping with you. You enjoy each other; you say you care for her and she cares for you. What more do you want?

It's your move to stop with the tamales and prove you really do care about a serious monogamous, non open relationship. This is what you said you wanted. It's on your plate. If you keep seeing other women at this point, you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship.

Sorry I'm cranky, but I just don't get what more you could ask for at this point. I never thought were being taken advantage of, by the way. But I think you are sending her very mixed signals and it doesn't surprise me that she get upset sometimes. Try being consistent, loyal, and faithful...

[tabbarat]

I wish! But I also got some people saying that "she will meet someone else, she can afford to wait"

This is what I'm wondering... if these past few days were just an emotional surge because of her birthday, or is it improvement?

I guess all I can do is wait and see how it goes for about a week (till she's "birthdayed" out)

Sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

And to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

And true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc... too many questions still

I think I'm going to wait, and then have another serious conversation soon

And about the tamales, they were always just a means of me trying to move on or get sex... the moment my ex decides that she is ready for smthg serious, then so will I... and I will obviously stop the tamales...

But I also think it is wrong for me to base my life on hers... like she cut it with the guy... is it right for me to cut it with the girl merely because she is free now?

Too many questions and too tipsy to think :)

Thanks for the advice :)

[artlady]

You can't make someone want you or love you.. harsh as that is and whenever someone says *I need space* or any of those other little put offs they really mean they want to call it off and they are trying to spare your feelings.
I say cut your losses and find someone who is not into head games and knows what she wants.
Best of luck!

[TrueFaith]

Tab I don't think there is a person on here who does not want to see you happy
You post here for views and we suer give them

Everyone as you know has the right to tell you
There views on this subject

I do hope these games get put out the window

Just be careful

[liz28]

Tab, I think your up to book #2.

The thing that continue to confuse me is that if your get along so well, your both like/care for one another then what's with all the games?

Life is short and tomorrow is never promise. The ex shouldn't even be an issue at this point and I've heard about people doing what your are doing for years but in reality they wasted time with one another by playing games. The only games I play are board games, Xbox, Playstation, and Wii.

[slapshot_oi]

took her and her aunt to dinner at the burj al arab hotel last night...spent 1000 USD!... then i gave her the gifts i bought her also worth over 1000usd,

i can't afford to spend 10 grand on a watch, but i can afford to spend 2-3 grand to make her happy...

Christ Almighty. I was broke for two weeks when I spent $150 on the 4G iPod Nano. They must have ridiculous casinos down there; I'd be in heaven.

this is what im wondering...if these past few days were just an emotional surge bc of her birthday, or is it improvement?... sometimes i get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes i get the feel that she still doesnt want a serious monogamous relationship... and to be honest...until im 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, im not gonna risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech and true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc...too many questions still

I think we finally got through to you.

[Mom of 2]

At least with me, I just wish that you would stop with all of the games (i.e. trying to make her jealous, etc.). I would just hate for you to waste a lot of time with this girl if she is not able to give you what you want. It is VERY apparent that you want a serious relationship with her, but is she willing to give that to you? I honestly don't think so.

I truly believe that you are a nice guy and I do admire your persistence. However, you can't make another person want what you want. They need to want that for themselves. Although you don't want to have a serious conversation with her about your wants, I still think that it is a necessary thing. Otherwise, you will be strung along for a long time. Are you willing to do that? I don't see this changing in the real near future, if it EVER does. The only way that things will change is if SHE wants to change things. Right now, it is working for her because she has you to buy her expensive gifts, take her out to expensive dinners and lunches, etc. In some ways, you are acting as a couple, but you really are not. You tell the waitress that this girl is special to you, but then on the flip side, you can't call her your girlfriend. To me, this is messed up.

Sorry if I offended you by saying that you will have relationship problems in the future. What I meant to say is that with every relationship experience that you have, you learn something; both good and bad. When you are taken advantage of (which I think that you have been to a certain degree) that creates baggage if the relationship does not work out that you bring to future relationships. You worry that the new person you are with will treat you in the same manner, when they may not. But, it makes you defensive because you don't want to get hurt in the same way. That is what I meant, NOT that you are not capable of having meaningful relationships ever. But, the longer the games continue, the more baggage that you create for yourself.

Good luck to you. I really wish you well. But PLEASE stop with the game playing if you truly care for this girl. Don't try to make her jealous by telling her that you are going out with someone else. Since you are in an open relationship, you have the right to see other people, as does she. If you were in a committed relationship, which you are not, then I would not be saying that.

I hope that I made myself a little clearer. I personally don't like open relationships because they are so confusing, but that is just me.

[talaniman]

sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

That's when you need to back off, and not accept what you don't want. That's why you are where your at now, in an open confusion... er... relationship.

and to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

Basing your actions on fear, will get you no where, as your seeing. You have always had other options that have been offered to you, which fear keeps you from considering.

When you love someone you don't turn around, and kick them in the butt. (tamales, others) That's the games you two are playing. If she isn't worth the risk of a heart break, then my friend your wasting your time any way.

Your sending each other mixed signals out of fear, of being hurt or abandoned, and that leads to confusion, and the games your playing. That needs to stop, as someone has to take a stand, and say enough is enough, and put this on a course of honesty, and truth! For whatever reason, you haven't done that, so keep doing what your doing, and stay confused, or take some advice, and take a chance, and lay things out so you can deal with this honestly.

[Mom of 2]

Yes, Talaniman is correct. (I tried to give you a greenie Tal, but it would not let me).

The key to all of this is that there is a lack of honesty. You may want to continue to avoid discussions out of fear of the unknown, but it all needs to be addressed soon. Otherwise, you run the risk of things never changing. The keys to any GOOD relationship is honesty, trust and communication. All of this is lacking in this relationship. That is why you have so much confusion.

[asking]

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.

[slapshot_oi]

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.

You got it all wrong pal, and that's not even close to what talaniman and Mom of 2 said. Getting into a serious relationship is not tabbarat's decision. He wants to commit to her and gladly will, but she won't/can't do the same.

His best shot is to let her do her own thing (NC and all that jazz), and with good fortune she will come back, but don't expect it to be before six months to a year. And do not be her friend. She is a woman, so she will feed you this line, and when she does, either give her a blank stare and don't respond, or laugh in her face and walk-away; I'd go with the latter. You have to act like a man and put your foot down, and if she doesn't like it, tough sh*t!

[tabbarat]

I appreciate all the posts and advice, but I feel closer to slapshot's statements

U say I have to commit first, and then she will follow... its not simple... she KNOWS that I want a relationship with her, but am seeing tamales because I obviously am not going to let my life go by... she knows that the moment she wants smthg serious, I will be ready

Its true, SHE is the one that is not ready for smthg serious, not me...

But I do not agree with him about letting her go and HOPING she comes back... the reason is in all 61 previous pages.. no need to repeat :)

[asking]

I agree that if you dump her, she will not come back.

I do not understand slapshot's reasoning about her being a woman and therefore feeding you lines. Has she asked to be just friends? I didn't think that had been an issue for a long time. Did I miss a few pages?

And I don't think women have cornered the market on game playing. In fact, overall, I think she's been more upfront than tabbarat. I assume she's hoping he'll give up the tamales when he's serious. So far, no. She's not seeing anyone else; he is. Right? If it were me, I'd be on the point of concluding he's not interested in an exclusive relationship, no matter what he said. Actions speak louder than words.

[tabbarat]

She didn't ask just to be friends... she said she is not ready for smthg serious but doesn't want to lose me... so we ended up in this sort of grey area/open relationship

We act like a couple, but there is no commitment... I wish there was, but there isn't because SHE isn't ready

And she did meet someone else and go on a couple for dates with him, but then she cut it off

I'm not seeing anyone else either... I met and flirted with a girl at a concert and she wants to see me tmrw, but nothing definite yet

I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree

But since she isn't ready, that is the reason I am out seeing tamales and meeting girls... bc I can't wait for her forever to make up her mind

I don't want to lose her too and we have a great time together and the feelings are there, etc... but I can't stop my life waiting for her to commit... just as she can't stop her life and live like a nun until she is ready to be serious with someone

Too confusing and too many questions... so I try to just relax, not think about it a lot and just enjoy OUR time together

Anyway, she called me today to say thank you again for the gifts and giving her a great birthday... she wanted to see me... so I passed by her house for 10 minutes and we had a nice talk and kissed a bit... then she went to bed because she had to wake up early and I went out with my friends

My family is coming into town for about 6 days tmrw, so I will be a bit busy with them,. maybe that's a good thing... we'll see

[asking]

[QUOTE=tabbarat;1409616]
I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree/QUOTE]

I am glad to hear that. This is not a weakness! It's a strength.

[talaniman]

That's the problem, she doesn't want what you want. At least not now, and I can understand that, after a 10 year relationship.

[tabbarat]

I can understand it also to some extent... so it is a question of: do I wait around until she is ready to commit, or do I just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?

I know it is on some levels wrong to wait around; but I also know that we make a great couple, and when she is ready we can have smthg good

Anyway... not going to get into this again... this issue was already beaten to death

[friend4u178]

i can understand it also to some extent...so it is a question of: do i wait around until she is ready to commit, or do i just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?

For all the toing and froing on this thread this really is the bottom line in this situation.

And ultimately Tab you have to make the decision about whether its worth the effort or not.

[face_reality]

Dude, you have got nothing with this girl. She does not like you. You're just the backup guy. When a girl tells you any of this, I am confused, shy, need space, lets be friends or anything along that line it means she has very little interest in you. Now let that sink! Do you think if George clooney came alone and asked her she would to him she is in love with her ex or she is confused? She would not even mention her ex (he does not exist). So now just move on to the next girl, save yourself.

[tabbarat]

You think if Heidi Klum came to me, I would tell her "no, sorry, im in love with this girl, or i really like this girl, etc.?" of course not...

Its poor logic..

Look at the facts... she wants me around just as much as I want her around... she calls me and wants to do things with me even more than I do sometimes... she decided to sleep with me... re-read the post about her crying when she read what I wrote her on her birthday card... etc... so I ask myself, if she doesn't like me or doesn't care (as you say), why all the effort from her side as well?

I agree maybe she doesn't want anything gserious right now... but to bluntly say she doesn't like you is wrong... especially when her words and actions show otherwise

Anyway, I hate going into this again... it has been beaten to death over the last 62 pages... move on