[cogs]

Credendovidis, so when you're in trouble, you say, 'self, help me out of this'? Or do you say, 'IF there's a god, help me out of this bad situation that's your fault anyway'?
Or do you say, 'since there's no god, I'm doomed anyway, so I give up'?
And you have never been in danger, or desperate, or unable to do something yourself, so you needed help?
My point being, have you never called on god to help you?

[Credendovidis]

credendovidis, so when you're in trouble, you say, 'self, help me out of this'?

No, I simply sort out my problem, do the right thing, pay the dues, etc.

or do you say, 'IF there's a god, help me out of this bad situation that's your fault anyway'?

"God" is no part of my vocabulary in such situations. Why call for an entity for which no OSE exists, in the hope that the deity exists ? Why spill the energy on empty hope ?

or do you say, 'since there's no god, i'm doomed anyway, so i give up'?

"God" is no part of my vocabulary in such situations. Why call for an entity for which no OSE exists, in the hope that the deity exists ? Why spill the energy on empty hope ?

and you have never been in danger, or desperate, or unable to do something yourself, so you needed help?

Yes I was frequently in danger, but not desperate or unable to help myself.
Your best help in danger are you yourself!!

my point being, have you never called on god to help you?

No I never did that. Your best help in danger are you yourself ! Certainly not an entity that is inmaterial and as if in some 5' dimension !

What is it with you : can't you accept that there are people WHO DO NOT NEED that claimed-to-exist entity you address with "God"??


:)

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[cogs]

It's hard for me to believe you have never instinctively called on god to help you.
You would be quite out of the ordinary to have such control of your faculties to defeat survival mechanism.

[Credendovidis]

it's hard for me to believe you have never instinctively called on god to help you.

Onwards the age of 12 I outgrew the unproved-to-exist entity you address with "God".

you would be quite out of the ordinary to have such control of your faculties to defeat survival mechanism.

All non-human life forms have survival mechanisms that lacks any need for the unproved-to-exist entity you address with "God".
Many non-theist human beings have a survival mechanism that lacks any need for the unproved-to-exist entity you address with "God".

You may have a survival mechanism that needs the unproved-to-exist entity you address with "God".
I simply do not need the unproved-to-exist entity you address with "God".

:)

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[cogs]

Then why are you on this forum?

[Credendovidis]

then why are you on this forum?

This is the religious DISCUSSIONS board.
Not the "we are all theist" board , or the we are all Christians board (there is already one of that).
You are here to discuss your views, and I my views.

:)

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[cogs]

So you're an atheist? Someone who cannot see an intelligent design in creation is short-sighted. I would also say that they are frustrated and hopeless, because seeing only what is evident brings disappointment that life has no purpose.
If this is the state you find yourself, consider re-thinking things for your own peace.

[N0help4u]

The way I see it is as Mopar pointed out
TRUE Christians is different than all these religious churches that people go to to look righteous when their hearts are wicked.
Many think that going to church on Sunday is all it takes to make them a Christian. All that means is they listen to a sermon and live like the devil the other 6 days of the week.

[cogs]

nohelp4u, I don't even know if these kind of people realize they're just as bad as those that don't go to church. God has to show them their sin, and if in their mind they aren't sinning, then they think everything's OK. Even those who think, 'im a good person, I'm nice to everyone', are still just as unregenerated as those who aren't so nice or good.
the trick is not to come to church, but come directly to god in our hearts. The more time I spend with examining my heart against what I believe god wants, the more I realize just how much I need to change.
jesus is the only hope for changing. He says he's the way to god. And he says he's the truth and life. Our sin is vanity (death), and in order to receive life (jesus) in our hearts, we have to allow the spirit of god to give us strength to stop the vanity('stop the insanity' lol):

Psa 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Psa 118:14 KJV - The LORD [is] my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
Psa 138:3 KJV - In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, [and] strengthenedst me [with] strength in my soul.

[inthebox]

To day’s Gospel is rather indoctrinating, in my opinion.

I quote:
“When the Pharisees heard how Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they came together. One of them, a teacher of the Law, tried to test him with this question, «Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the Law?». Jesus answered, «‘You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind’. This is the first and the most important of the commandments. But after this there is another one very similar to it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’. The whole Law and the Prophets are founded on these two commandments. (Mt. 22:34-40)

Unquote:

Practically, all important religions of this world have always preached (with these and other words) the same message. Which implies that man intimately believes in the sameness of human race and in the necessity to love each other to be able to peacefully live together.

But, speaking only of Christianity, where Jesus’ message is so crystal clear, it is rather extraordinary how we can ALL so bluntly tell untruths and lie when we proudly claim how good Christians we are and how we love our Lord while at the same time showing our total indifference towards our fellow citizens in particular and towards Mankind in general.



I’m sure that the responsible parties of the economic crash we are living in right now DO piously attend the Sunday religious services of their church but have not hesitated one second to get carried away by their personal ambition and greed to accumulate more wealth even if it means to ruin and mess up the world’s economy…
That is what I call “loving myself as I hate others…”

How did you go from the Gospel to a rant on the economic downturn?

Was God more concerned about our souls or our wallets?

Was not Jesus talking more about our relationship with Him first and love for others as a fruit of that?

Why don't you specifically name these Christian impressarios that you can see the speck in their eyes?

[gromitt82]

How did you go from the Gospel to a rant on the economic downturn?

Was God more concerned about our souls or our wallets?

Was not Jesus talking more about our relationship with Him first and love for others as a fruit of that?

Why don't you specifically name these Christian impressarios that you can see the speck in their eyes?

How did you go from the Gospel to a rant on the economic downturn?

Very simple! The Gospel is the message Jesus left with mankind whereby we are supposed to live in a certain way. I say that those parties responsible of the economic crash PROBABLY claim to be true Christians and, consequently, TO FOLLOW Jesus’ instructions. But they haven’t, for if they had they would not have acted out of an incredible greediness…

Was God more concerned about our souls or our wallets?

I’m sorry to say that no intelligent person should put forward a question like this.
God is only concerned about our sould. Men are the ones concerned about our wallets…

Was not Jesus talking more about our relationship with Him first and love for others as a fruit of that?

Yes. And precisely this is what I am complaining about. That we have ALL lost the basic message of loving each other as we SHOULD love him.

Why don't you specifically name these Christian impressarios that you can see the speck in their eyes?

Why should I? In the first place I’m not saying they are Christian. I am just implying that should they be Christian they would have been acting the wrong way.
Secondly, those parties actually responsible DID act the wrong way by human standards. Much more so, if on top, they considered themselves good Christians.
Thirdly, I cannot point out any names because I do not know any. Do you? If you do perhaps you can enlighten me and then I will tell whether they ccan be considered as Christians or they simpley were atheists or nonbelievers…__________________
Government does not cause affluence. Citizens of totalitarian countries have plenty of government and nothing of anything else.

When a government controls both the economic power of individuals and the coercive power of the state... this violates a fundamental rule of happy living: Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people.

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys

As for the 3 declarations above I do not know whether they apply here, but I do agree with the 3 of them.

[inthebox]

Very simple! The Gospel is the message Jesus left with mankind whereby we are supposed to live in a certain way. I say that those parties responsible of the economic crash PROBABLY claim to be true Christians and, consequently, TO FOLLOW Jesus’ instructions. But they haven’t, for if they had they would not have acted out of an incredible greediness…

Who is responsible for this economic recession? Are they claiming to be Christians?
Then why your rant against Christians?

Was God more concerned about our souls or our wallets?

I’m sorry to say that no intelligent person should put forward a question like this.
God is only concerned about our should. Men are the ones concerned about our wallets…

I guess you could not detect the sarcasm.
Of course God is more concerned with our souls than our bank accounts.

Why don't you specifically name these Christian impressarios that you can see the speck in their eyes?

Why should I? In the first place I’m not saying they are Christian. I am just implying that should they be Christian they would have been acting the wrong way.
Secondly, those parties actually responsible DID act the wrong way by human standards. Much more so, if on top, they considered themselves good Christians.
Thirdly, I cannot point out any names because I do not know any. Do you? If you do perhaps you can enlighten me and then I will tell whether they ccan be considered as Christians or they simply were atheists or nonbelievers

Again, I'm not making the accusation that those responsible for this economic recession are or are not Christians or should or should be Christians. :)

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But given the current situation, with so many more people in need, this is a great time to help each other out and glorify God.

[Tj3]

This is the religious DISCUSSIONS board.
Not the "we are all theist" board , or the we are all Christians board (there is already one of that).

Right and Atheism is a known religious view.

[xxariesxx]

Right and Atheism is a known religious view.

You'd have to believe in religion to have a religious view.

[Tj3]

You'd have to believe in religion to have a religious view.

Atheism is a religious view. They believe that there is no god. But since they have no evidence, they believe it based on faith that there is no god. Atheism is a religious belief because it represents their belief regarding God.

[Alty]

nohelp4u, i don't even know if these kind of people realize they're just as bad as those that don't go to church. god has to show them their sin, and if in their mind they aren't sinning, then they think everything's ok. even those who think, 'im a good person, i'm nice to everyone', are still just as unregenerated as those who aren't so nice or good.
the trick is not to come to church, but come directly to god in our hearts. the more time i spend with examining my heart against what i believe god wants, the more i realize just how much i need to change.
jesus is the only hope for changing. he says he's the way to god. and he says he's the truth and life. our sin is vanity (death), and in order to receive life (jesus) in our hearts, we have to allow the spirit of god to give us strength to stop the vanity('stop the insanity' lol):

Why do you feel the need to go to church if God is in your heart? That's what I've been asking Christians for a long time on this site. I've never gotten a good answer.

I don't believe in organized religion, nor do I think that the bible is the word of God, but I do believe in God. I don't have to go to a church to hear one mans view (the priest, pastor, what have you) or a man written book.

Most of the people I use to to attend church with, both in the Catholic church and the Lutheran church, were a bunch of hypocrites. Go to church, pray to God, ask for forgiveness, dress in you Sunday best, go home, beat your wife, molest your kids and then go back to church on Sunday.

Church and the bible have nothing to do with your love for God, it's just a way to prove to everyone else that you believe, but it doesn't mean that God is in your heart.

If more people actually accepted God into their heart and didn't just play the part, the world would be a better place.

[xxariesxx]

I guess I don't see it as having faith that there is no God. It's not as if atheists are necessarily dying to believe that there is a God and so have to have faith that there isn't.

It's a matter of looking at religion objectively and see it as a cultural and societal creation, not something to have or not have faith in spiritually.

[Tj3]

I guess I don't see it as having faith that there is no God.

One form of faith is believing in someone for which there is no evidence. And it is a religion since it represents their faith regarding God.

Atheism is a faith. Unless, of course, you can prove that there is no God.

[Alty]

I guess I don't see it as having faith that there is no God. It's not as if atheists are necessarily dying to believe that there is a God and so have to have faith that there isn't.

It's a matter of looking at religion objectively and see it as a cultural and societal creation, not something to have or not have faith in spiritually.

I agree.

Most religious people think that all atheist believe in God or are longing to. They can't accept that some people just don't believe. Not believing in God is not a faith based thing, atheists just don't see proof for God, therefore they choose not to believe.

Some Christians believe that badgering someone into accepting God will actually work. So, saying that Atheism is a religion is a way to badger the Atheists, keep them talking so that they can convey their message, try to convert them to God.

Sadly, there are many Christians like this around, but there are also many good Christians that are accepting of others beliefs, or non beliefs. Yes, they may quote the bible to you, they may try to get you to accept God, but they go about it the way that God intended, not obtrusively, but kindly.

To each their own. :)

[xxariesxx]

One form of faith is believing in someone for which there is no evidence. And it is a religion since it represents their faith regarding God.

Atheism is a faith. Unless, of course, you can prove that there is no God.

No one can prove it either way obviously.

I get the feeling you think I'm personally attacking you. I'm not out to disprove there is a God. I just don't believe in religion whatsoever.