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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #21

    Nov 19, 2008, 05:22 PM

    I hear public outrage with the idea that people who don't even own an American car is expected to throw good money to bad and bail out companies who's business models are complete failures.

    What is even better is that given the example of the financial bailout ;the giver-ment is likely to reserve a seat in the board rooms of these corporations . What better place to secure patronage?! We already saw how handily a politician can plunder from the bottom line at Freddie and Fannie. The only place I've seen politicians pocket line more effectively is at the UN .
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #22

    Nov 20, 2008, 06:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    What is even better is that given the example of the financial bailout ;the giver-ment is likely to reserve a seat in the board rooms of these corporations . What better place to secure patronage ? !!! We already saw how handily a politican can plunder from the bottom line at Freddie and Fannie. The only place I've seen politicans pocket line more effectively is at the UN .
    Of course they want seats in the boardrooms, what better way to get the green cars they want? As I pointed out before, congress gave them $25 billion in September as quid pro quo to help cover the cost of meeting the new fuel efficiency mandates. Darn right they want a seat on the board, anything to gain more leverage to force their agenda and as you say to secure patronage, the cost to the public be damned.

    WaPo gives another example of their thinking in calling for raising the federal gas tax a penny a month for 48 months.

    In a perfect world, we'd like to see a gas tax that was the equivalent of oil at $100 per barrel. This would send a loud-and-clear signal to drivers to continue eschewing gas guzzlers for fuel sippers and mass transit. Automakers would get the message to speed up production of motor vehicles that meet or exceed the 35 miles per gallon by 2020 mandated by Congress last year. Instead of the money going to countries that have U.S. interests at heart in the same way a dealer cares about a junkie, the revenue would stay here -- and it could all be returned to the American people in the form of tax rebates.

    Yeah that's the ticket, let's intentionally double the price of oil, force Americans to take the bus or buy a $25,000 hybrid, force automakers to build cars they like and all that money we rake in we're going to return to the taxpayers. Here's a novel idea for a perfect world, how about letting us keep our money and decide how to spend it?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #23

    Nov 20, 2008, 06:57 AM

    Of course they want seats in the boardrooms, what better way to get the green cars they want?
    Yeah San Fran Nan and her cronies are now auto engineers.Like I said ;Fords most profitable line cannot be sold in the US.

    raising the federal gas tax
    Actually I don't get too worked up over consumption taxes. They should do that with an equivalent reduction in income taxes however .

    The only downside I see to the recent price reductions at the pump is that people will forget the days of $4+/gal.
    Drill Drill drill... conserve ;convert to natural gas ,flex fuels ,hybrids , develop renewable alternatives become energy independent ,should still be a national priority .
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #24

    Nov 20, 2008, 07:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Actually I don't get too worked up over consumption taxes. They should do that with an equivalent reduction in income taxes however .
    I'd buy that, too but I know the likelihood of congress reducing or eliminating a tax.

    The only downside I see to the recent price reductions at the pump is that people will forget the days of $4+/gal.
    Drill Drill drill... conserve ;convert to natural gas ,flex fuels ,hybrids , develop renewable alternatives become energy independent ,should still be a national priority .
    I don't disagree with that at all, it just gets old for government to penalize people to force change.
    inthebox's Avatar
    inthebox Posts: 787, Reputation: 179
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    #25

    Nov 20, 2008, 01:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    yeah a great PR move!

    Spit I would gladly purchase American cars if they were of comparative value. Now everyone tells me that the engineering has caught up and when you buy a car from the big 3 you are buying dependability. I'll take their word for it.

    That doesn't address however the point you just made ;that they are still not making cars Americans want. Yeah they captured the SUV ;light truck etc. market but that has not helped them maintain market share.

    They have to face a reality . A worker at a Michigan plant does about 25 years and then retires in their 50s with gold plated retirement and health care packages . If this worker lives into the mid- 80s you are talking about as many years retired as were worked. That ratio is not sustainable. Even if they kept market share;with automation the auto industry just doesn't need as many welders as they used to hire. There are not enough workers supporting their "legacy" benefit packages .

    If the big 3 moved out of Detroit and started fresh in a "right to work" state they would stand a chance. It's not even an issue of competing with foreign workers ........they cannot compete with workers in Tennesse making cars in America .Everything else being equal ;the consumer pays an additional $4000 in costs to subsidize this imbalance.

    Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work - 10/17/05

    No jobs bank?

    Honda, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes all manufacture [ some of their ] vehicles in the US. Just in right to work states and without some benefits



    GM Spends $17 Million Per Year on Viagra
    ;)

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