[magprob]

After Noah, the linage of Christ was lost due to the linage of Cain. We "ALL" have that DNA to some extent or another. Not as the white sepremist try to push-that they are the true lineage of Adam. Let me make that perfectly clear. That is a lie.
That is the sole reason for the virgin birth. The Christ child was of GOD's lineage and GOD's only. God only used the virgin to carry the child. The human DNA had been corruped. That is the original sin, the fall of man. Only Christ can redeem it. GOD's Blood for corrupted blood.

[Credendovidis]

What makes you think that you're "truth" is the correct path? You haven't studied my beliefs, do you even know what they are? Do you know what being a Deist entails?

Even IF that was done, your religious truth is just as good as anyone else's truth, as no VALID evidence exist for any particular religious view!!

All one can do is BELIEVE and HOPE that his/her religious view is the truth.

:)

.

.

[Tj3]

Um. Here?

Too bad that you did not read the whole story of Abraham and his son. You quoted it - read it.

[Tj3]

Well, according to the Bible, death and sinning entered the world when women were invented by God and then "disobeyed" God's injunction not to eat fruit (which is really interesting given that primates are fruit eaters).

Really, you should read the Bible and not just go by what someone told you. The Bible nowhere says not to eat fruit and that was not the sin that caused mankind to fall. Rather they wanted to be ask God, following the lie that satan gave them.

Read it!

[Tj3]

What makes you think that you're "truth" is the correct path?

I don't. Never have. I submit what I believe to the word of God. It is His truth and His path that is the correct path.

You haven't studied my beliefs, do you even know what they are? Do you know what being a Deist entails?

Yes, I do, and you will note that so far I have said very little about it, either positive or negative, other than to agree with you that you follow a different god than I do.

[Tj3]

Abraham and Issac became a type (picture) of The Father and Jesus Christ.

God never intended for Abraham to kill Issac, so He didn't "lose His nerve".

To allow Issac to die at that time would have cut of the lineage of Christ, the promised "seed" of Eve.

God doesn't make mistakes and never has to change His plan. It is up to us to ask for understanding, and He will give it to us.

Exactly!

[JoeT777]

On the Christian board yesterday, someone made a comment that their truth was different from someone elses truth. Just because we believe something..does it make it truth? How can we know if something is true.? Is there such thing as absolute truth?

God and Truth are convertible; St. Thomas says, “Whence it follows not only that truth is in Him, but that He is truth itself, and the sovereign and first truth. “ Summa Prima Q, 15 a5” Consequently we can say that there is an absolute infallible truth.

St. Thomas what is known of God and thus in all cases we can say that it is what is known of truth:

God exists (see Summa Prima Q,2,3). Truth exists.

God is Immutable (see Summa Prima Q,9, 1). Truth is immutable.

God is Eternal. “Now God is His own uniform being; and hence as He is His own essence, so He is His own eternity.” (see Summa Prima Q,10 2). Truth is eternal.

God is Spiritual (see Summa Prima Q,3,3 & 6). “…it follows that there is no accident in God.” Truth is spiritual.

God is not contained in Space, Time or Matter. “It is therefore impossible that in God there should be any potentiality. But every body is in potentiality because the continuous, as such, is divisible to infinity; it is therefore impossible that God should be a body… its animation depends upon some other thing, as our body depends for its animation on the soul. Hence that by which a body becomes animated must be nobler than the body. Therefore it is impossible that God should be a body. “(See Summa Prima Q,3,1). Truth is not constrained by time, location, or the matter it resides in.

God’s law (Divine law) is superior to man’s law. (see PRIMA SECUNDÆ PARTIS Q,91,4) Besides the natural and the human law it was necessary for the directing of human conduct to have a Divine law. And this for four reasons. First, because it is by law that man is directed how to perform his proper acts in view of his last end. And indeed if man were ordained to no other end than that which is proportionate to his natural faculty, there would be no need for man to have any further direction of the part of his reason, besides the natural law and human law which is derived from it. But since man is ordained to an end of eternal happiness which is inproportionate to man's natural faculty, as stated above , therefore it was necessary that, besides the natural and the human law, man should be directed to his end by a law given by God. Truth is superior to man’s law.

After a long discusion St. Augustine concludes God=Truth.

O soul pressed down by the corruptible body, and weighed down by earthly thoughts, many and various; behold and see, if thou canst, that God is truth. For it is written that "God is light;" not in such way as these eyes see, but in such way as the heart sees, when it is said, He is truth [reality]. St. Augustine, On the Trinity, 8,2

We see in the Psalms a dissertation of Truth leading to the same conclusion, God is Truth:

I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments I have not forgotten. Psalm 118:30

And take not thou the word of truth utterly out of my mouth: for in thy words, I have hoped exceedingly. Psalm 118:43 (Truth is from God)

I know, O Lord, that thy judgments are equity: and in thy truth thou hast humbled me. Psalm 118:75 (Truth is humbles our intellect)

All thy statutes are truth: they have persecuted me unjustly, do thou help me. Psalm 118:86 (Truth is dogmatic Truth)

Thy truth unto all generations: thou hast founded the earth, and it continueth. Psalm 118:90 (Truth is eternal)

Thou hast commanded justice thy testimonies: and thy truth exceedingly. Psalm 118:138 (God’s justice is Truth)

Thy justice is justice for ever: and thy law is the truth. Psalm 118:142 (God’s law is Truth)

Thou art near, O Lord: and all thy ways are truth. Psalm 118:151 (God’s ways are Truth)

The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are forever. Psalm 118:160 (God’s words are Truth)

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. 7 If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen him.

Thus we can conclude that to know Christ is to know God which is to know the Truth. All of which is convertible from one to the other. Neither precedes the other. Truth is timeless and immutable.

JoeT

[Alty]

Joe, you are trying to prove God with bible scripture. Many of the people on this thread do not view the bible as proof of God's existence. I am one of those people.

You may believe that this is indeed truth, but you haven't proven it.

[Tj3]

Even IF that was done, your religious truth is just as good as anyone else's truth, as no VALID evidence exist for any particular religious view !!!

All one can do is BELIEVE and HOPE that his/her religious view is the truth.

As you BELIEVE and HOPE that there is no God!

[spyderglass]

Alty,

I know where this lengthy list of so called contradictions and problems exists on internet and that is another timewaster. I used to spend days and weeks refuting these one at a time, but you know it is a complete waste of time. here is why:

- Those who are really interested and care, read the context and in 99% of the cases, refuting these requires no more than to read one verse before or after. A few others requires a bit more reading. Those who care will usual;ly read the context because they are interested.

- Those who are not interested will just keep tossing these out a few at a time to waste the time of those who fall for it.

BTW, this very thing is one of the topics that I speaking on and I plan to use the example that michael posted to show those attending how these verses are taken out of context for this purpose.



We agree. the God that you follow is NOT the God of the Bible. But I hope that some day, you will really open the Bible to read it for what it says, not what websites tell you it says, not what the Catholic Church, or indeed any denomination told you to believe, but what the Bible really says.

Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill
Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live
Trust me I've read before and after both verses extensively...

[Tj3]

Joe, you are trying to prove God with bible scripture. Many of the people on this thread do not view the bible as proof of God's existence. I am one of those people.

That is because you are not willing to give serious consideration to the validation of scripture.

[Tj3]

Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill
Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live
Trust me I've read before and after both verses extensively...

Good! Now what is your point?

[spyderglass]

Validation by whom?

[spyderglass]

Did you not see the quote. About contradictions? The law was given to them in the ten commandments- yet there are contradictory laws written in chapter 22.

[spyderglass]

Where did you go? Hmmm...

[Alty]

There are many more contradictions as well Spydie.

I always find it amusing that people who believe in the bible also contradict that very book in their everyday lives.

Take for example:

Exodus 20:4,6: 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

I have yet to go to a church that doesn't have a statue of Jesus on the cross. Isn't that a false idol, a graven image? Yet every church I've been to has one of these statues and sometimes more, and yes, the parish kneels in front of this idol and worships it as if it were God himself.

I really would like someone to explain that to me.

[spyderglass]

I totally agree Alty, I know a quite a few of the contradictions myself. But I wasn't raised Catholic. I was raised Protestant.
My family is still upset that I'm not a christian. But honestly, you really can't tell the difference between us (until they try to debate with me). I thought about what I truly believed and I found a religion that was my own.

[Alty]

I was raised Lutheran by two wonderful parents who always respected my right to make up my own mind. They wanted me to question things, they wanted me to find my own truth.

So, no, I don't believe in the bible, or organized religion, but I do believe in God. I'm a Deist, a very happy Deist. :)

[spyderglass]

And I believe in a god, and a goddess. But if your'e happy, I'm happy!

[Alty]

I guess we're both happy then. :)

We should get back to the topic. Sorry ClassyT, didn't mean to stray off topic. Forgive me? :)