[Tj3]

TJ3,

Your entire rebuttal consisted of

Michaelb, if you are not going to read my posts, then why are you even bothering to post.

I said much more in post #31, for starters and many others.

It is worthy of note that you chose not to actually provide a quote of what I said. That is because it would expose your deception!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUSTRALIAN BRUSH TURKEY : An interesting animal. It does not sit the eggs to incubate them, but rather creates a compost pile to provide the heat, which must be maintained at aorund 33 degress. The eggs are laid down at the precise depth and in a circle where that exact heat will be maintained. The turkey does not lay the eggs right away, but waits until the compost pile has reached the necessary temperature. The is requires that the brush turkey understand heat and decomposition, as well as how the heat radiates and be able to calculate the precise depth and pattern at which the necessary heat occurs. And it has to understand that this is all required to hatch chicks. To have gained this knowledge by chance would be impossible because there are too many variables to all the brush turkey to figure out the linkage between heat and hatching eggs and then precisely what heat is required and how to obtain it. The existence of God and his creation of this animal explains this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tj3]

I don't have any alternatives to add, I'm not a scientist, an evolutionist, any kind of "ist", but that doesn't mean that I automatically say that God did it because there isn't any other explanation.

You are welcome to your opinion. This was a discussion on what the scientific evidence shows.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EYE : How about the eye. Can anyone give a plausible explanation as to how the eye came to be?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tj3]

Please read the header of this topic :

[B]THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF CLAIMS ON THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD"

This is funny - You claim that you want to discuss the validity of the claims, but wish to only do so if no one is allowed to examine the claims.

[Alty]

The claims have been examined Tj3, and they aren't valid proof of the existence of God.

Eeek, sorry, I promised I'd stay out of it.

Okay, back to my corner. :(

[michealb]

It is worthy of note that you chose not to actually provide a quote of what I said. That is because it would expose your deception!

I quoted you from your post #156 so no deception on my part but regardless. You entire line of thinking is off. Even if we don't have good hypothesis all it means is we don't know that's all it means. It doesn't mean that god did it, it only mean we don't have all the answers it doesn't mean we won't find them later. The only evidence for the supernatural is the supernatural

[Credendovidis]

Is there is a single atheist on here who can provide any OSE for their BELIEF that there is no God?.
It is only fair that this question now be turned around the other way, now that the evidence for the existence for God has not been refuted.

Why should Atheists provide any argument against the existence of "God"??
I am an Atheist, but I - with almost all Atheists - never claimed that "God" does not exist. I just question the existence of "God", and each time I ask for "proof" for the existence of "God" when someone here states that he/she "knows" that "God" exists, there is a deep and dead silence (or someone posts a silly list with irrelevant queries in response).

Besides that : the onus to prove anything is on the claimer, i.e. on the Theist, not on anyone else.
You may BELIEVE and have FAITH in the existence of "God" , but you can not provide OSE for the existence of "God". It is that simple...

And as there never was any OSE for the existence of "God" provided anywhere, at anytime, by anyone, there is nothing to refute by Atheists.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.

[JoeT777]

Please read the header of this topic :

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF CLAIMS ON THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD".

********THIS IS PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD"********.

St. Thomas (Summa Theologica I:2:3; Cont. Gent. I, xiii) provides us with the logic of how we can know of God’s existence:

• Motion, i.e. the passing from power to act, as it takes place in the universe implies a first unmoved Mover (primum movens immobile), who is God; else we should postulate an infinite series of movers, which is inconceivable.

• For the same reason efficient causes, as we see them operating in this world, imply the existence of a First Cause that is uncaused, i.e. that possesses in itself the sufficient reason for its existence; and this is God.

• The fact that contingent beings exist, i.e. beings whose non-existence is recognized as possible, implies the existence of a necessary being, who is God.

• The graduated perfections of being actually existing in the universe can be understood only by comparison with an absolute standard that is also actual, i.e. an infinitely perfect Being such as God.

• The wonderful order or evidence of intelligent design which the universe exhibits implies the existence of a supramundane Designer, who is no other than God Himself.

SOURCE: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Existence of God

Consequently, we see once again a right reasoned logic shows us that God is omnipotent as well as omniscient.

JoeT

[Alty]

implies the existence of a supramundane Designer, who is no other than God Himself.

You said it all, implies, not proves.

[classyT]

Tj3,

For me, I think the JEW is evidence enough to believe that God exists AND not only that he exists BUT that the bible is HIS complete Word to us.

Cred,

What you don't understand is that God doesn't have to prove anything to you! I have said earlier I can't prove it. I think what TJ3 has given you has been MORE than food for thought. If you would stop for a few seconds to actually PONDER some of this stuff... maybe something would sink in! ( OK.. maybe not) but what do you gain by insisting on proof? The way I see it, YOU WIN! So? If I could give you proof it would make not one ounce of difference.

[Tj3]

I quoted you from your post #156 so no deception on my part but regardless.

Let me be more direct. You are outright lying. I was not even responding to you in that post. You may be thinking of #155, but that was not where I responded to you theories and I said much much more - so you are being deceptive. My response to you was, as I pointed out several times before, in #31. Why you chose to go to a completely different post is a matter that only you can know.

So you are being deceptive.

Those who love truth do not need to fear it.

[Tj3]

Why should Atheists provide any argument against the existence of "God" ???

I did not say that. I said OSE for their BELIEF that there is no God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUSTRALIAN BRUSH TURKEY : An interesting animal. It does not sit the eggs to incubate them, but rather creates a compost pile to provide the heat, which must be maintained at aorund 33 degress. The eggs are laid down at the precise depth and in a circle where that exact heat will be maintained. The turkey does not lay the eggs right away, but waits until the compost pile has reached the necessary temperature. The is requires that the brush turkey understand heat and decomposition, as well as how the heat radiates and be able to calculate the precise depth and pattern at which the necessary heat occurs. And it has to understand that this is all required to hatch chicks. To have gained this knowledge by chance would be impossible because there are too many variables to all the brush turkey to figure out the linkage between heat and hatching eggs and then precisely what heat is required and how to obtain it. The existence of God and his creation of this animal explains this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tj3]

Tj3,

For me, I think the JEW is evidence enough to believe that God exists AND not only that he exists BUT that the bible is HIS complete Word to us.

Amen!

I have been preparing for a talk that I am giving in two weeks on the evidence for the truth of the Bible as the standard for Christian doctrine, and when I review the evidence once again, it just amazes me how overwhelming the evidence for the Bible is.

[Credendovidis]

I have been preparing for a talk that I am giving in two weeks on the evidence for the truth of the Bible as the standard for Christian doctrine, and when I review the evidence once again, it just amazes me how overwhelming the evidence for the Bible is.

... evidence for the truth of the Bible as the standard for Christian doctrine...

The Bible is an entire different topic, including any sort of evidence for that Bible.

What about Objective Supported Evidence (OSE) for the existence of "God" ?

THAT IS THE TOPIC HERE !!!

Once more Tj3 : stay on topic!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.

[Tj3]

... evidence for the truth of the Bible as the standard for Christian doctrine ...

The Bible is an entire different topic, including any sort of evidence for that Bible.

What about Objective Supported Evidence (OSE) for the existence of "God" ?

THAT IS THE TOPIC HERE !!!

Cred,

You alter what you claim to be the topic whenever the truth becomes uncomfortable for you - which is very often

You cry wolf too often.

[michealb]

Let me be more direct. You are outright lying. I was not even responding to you in that post. You may be thinking of #155, but that was not where I responded to you theories and I said much much more - so you are being deceptive. My response to you was, as I pointed out several times before, in #31. Why you chose to go to a completely different post is a matter that only you can know.

So you are being deceptive.

Those who love truth do not need to fear it.

Let me be more direct. You are outright lying. Post #156 is your post which I quoted you responding to me.

Your response in #32 simply shows that you won't except any answer other than the super natural for these events. You don't disprove a single one of the theories I present. You simply say you don't believe that they are possible. Which considering you don't thing any natural solution for anything is possible, how am I not surprised.

You have no proof that any of the theories I presented are not correct. You simply have your repeated ramblings.

[Credendovidis]

THIS IS PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD[/B]
St. Thomas (Summa Theologica I:2:3; Cont. Gent., I, xiii) provides us with the logic of how we can know of God’s existence:

St. Thomas Aquinas's "Summa Theologica" is no OSE, but a religious and philosophic work written by a human being.

:rolleyes:

.

.

[Credendovidis]

You alter what you claim to be the topic whenever the truth becomes uncomfortable for you - which is very often

Just read the header Tommy!! Is that text perhaps too difficult for you to understand ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Tj3]

Let me be more direct. You are outright lying. Post #156 is your post which I quoted you responding to me.

I invite anyone to go and check it out.

You have revealed a great deal about yourself by the fact that you willing to deny the truth.

[Tj3]

Just read the header Tommy !!! Is that text perhaps too difficult for you to understand ?

Maybe you should read it yourself!! :D :D:D:D:D

[Credendovidis]

Maybe you should read it yourself!!!!!

Ok : it reads : Objective Supported Evidence for "God's" existence ?

Even an 8 year old child can understand that header text and the question involved.

Now please reply in the intention of that header text and discuss here accordingly.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.