[ZoeMarie]

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

Very good point here!

[speechlesstx]

Racist... :rolleyes:. I was merely pointing out who McCain's target demographic is. Nothing more and nothing less.

I beg to differ of course. One of the things Bush has gotten little or no credit for is the racial diversity of his administration. When minorities don’t fall in line with the liberal ideology they tend to be attacked by the left, think Miguel Estrada, Michael Steele, Condi Rice – and Colin Powell before he endorsed Obama. McCain has a female running mate for crying out loud. We don’t need talk of “white male” target demographics, it does not reflect mine, McCain’s or the Republican party’s philosophy and it feeds unnecessary tensions.

As for a personal attack, I'm sorry I offended you. You're right, I don't know you and it wasn't fair to judge your compassion. Some dude has been riding through our neighborhood stealing all the Obama signs and I'm not feeling very compassionate myself... So can we call it even? :)

Fair enough. :)

After much discussion with you and other conservatives, I'm beginning to see the distinct differences. Conservatives have a more individualistic view and they seem to see America as an entity alone and independent from the world and each individual's position in the nation based on his or her own merits. While this certainly seems like a convenient way to live, i.e. whatever you make for yourself, you keep for yourself and the belief that one should have no obligation to help anyone else except himself, there are problems with this view. You sort of need to see the forest for the trees. We are not a bunch of individuals-- we are a nation. We are dependent on one another, a good analogy is the human body. It's great to have a healthy heart, but if the liver goes bad so does the heart. We can't keep up some parts of the nation while letting other parts fall into grievous disrepair. It weakens the strength of the whole nation.

Nice analogies but still off base. Why in the world (no pun intended) would Republicans push for free trade agreements if we were comfortable being “an entity alone?” How many Christian conservative dollars do you suppose go to help people in other nations? We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society. It’s an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

One of the defining concepts of this country is independence, but independence does not equal isolationism. As a conservative Republican I’m not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us. That’s silly in my opinion, and it belies the left’s mantra of diversity and tolerance of others different from ourselves. I appreciate and celebrate the individual, it would be a dull placed if everyone thought, spoke and acted the same, so why would anyone that claims to appreciate diversity and tolerance want to be more like European countries instead of being the United States of America, and additionally give up some of our sovereign rights in the process?

[speechlesstx]

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

There you go again, showing us your narrow mindedness while criticizing the alleged narrow minded.

[Merris]

I beg to differ of course. One of the things Bush has gotten little or no credit for is the racial diversity of his administration.

I was happy to see minorities in Bush's cabinet. They just had a leader making very bad decisions and in over his head.

Oh and McCain's female running mate? Don't even get me started. She is an embarrassment and Mr. McCain committed an act of sexism whether he sees his own blunder or not. He impulsively chose the Alaskan beauty queen with no brains and this perpetuates the stereotype that women are only picked over for their looks and when they are unable to fulfill the demands of the position it makes all women look bad and impedes their progress. So thanks John McCain.. the man who will do anything foolish just to try to win. For him apparently it's not how you get there... as long as you just get there. The American people aren't buying it.

How many Christian conservative dollars do you suppose go to help people in other nations? We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society.

Oh lots... with strings attached. I originally wrote something here... but have decided against getting into it.

As a conservative Republican I'm not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us.

What they think is only a small part of it. It also matters to realize that our own actions have a global impact. We can't act completely independently because as the global financial crisis shows us, the decisions we make here affects people all across the globe.

It's an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

I've mentioned Obama's idea of students volunteering and doing community service for college tuition. This is in no way making anyone dependent. In fact quite the opposite. McCain, on the other hand, hasn't offered any ideas.

Seems that some wouldn't know a good thing if it came up and hit them smack in the face. It's a shame.

p.s. the dude stealing the Obama signs in our neighborhood was apprehended. He was drunk and sending his 8 year old daughter into peoples yards to bring them back to him... classy!

[speechlesstx]

I don't have time to address all of this right now so I'll leave it at this one:

Oh lots... with strings attached. I originally wrote something here... but have decided against getting into it.

Like what, an accounting of where our dollars go? I know I like to get an update once in a while on the girls we sponsor in El Salvador and east Africa. Maybe a short letter, a picture to put on our refrigerator to remind us to pray for them or especially a crayon scribbled drawing. Or in other words, we like to know we're making a difference in their lives.

[inthebox]

Actually you are correct there. Even if Jesus the Son of God himself endorsed Obama the republicans would still find a way to smear and discredit it. To be so narrow minded is a waste of a lifetime.

You prove my point.

I rely on facts.

You rely on emotion and personal attacks.

I know you don't believe in God, so it is disingenuous to state what you said in your second sentence.

You see, Colin Powell or Oprah or Madonna or Hamas can endorse Obama,
Power Line - Hamas Endorses Obama
It will not change my mind because I THINK FOR MYSELF - quite the contrary of being swayed by endorsements.

The fact that Obama believes in increasing taxes, in abortion, in government having more powers in making decisions in our lives is what I am against. Colin Powell's endorsement does not change my mind.

By the way, just because you don't see things like I do, does not lead me to the conclusion that you are narrow minded - just that you disagree. ;)

[NeedKarma]

it will not change my mind because I THINK FOR MYSELF ...
The fact that Obama believes in increasing taxes, in abortion, in government having more powers in making decisions in our lives is what I am against.

You are against it because a book tells you it's wrong hence you do not think for yourself.

Also you have misrepresented the candidates position. For 95% of people in the US their taxes will go down with Obama as president. He does not believe ib abortion, he believes in a woman's choice, Bush gave the government more powers to infiltrate your life than any president could ever do afterward.

[inthebox]

Tell me, NK - how can ones taxes be cut when they don't even pay taxes

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million


The only way this could be accomplished is by credits and refunds.

So from the same pie, remember Obama does not discuss how to grow the pie, more is taken from those who pay taxes to be redistributed to those who don't pay taxes.

Remember that there are other taxes - AMT, state, local, sales, property taxes that have to paid. Have you looked at a cell phone or cable bill and noticed all the taxes and fees?

You can insult me all you want, you can insult the Bible all you want, but the facts are the facts.

Again, another case of countering emotional and personal attacks with facts and logic. ;):D

[Wondergirl]

So from the same pie, remember Obama does not discuss how to grow the pie,

Yes, he does. Haven't you been listening?

more is taken from those who pay taxes to be redistributed to those who don't pay taxes

IF one makes more than $250,000 per year. Do you? I don't, and never have even with my husband working and my working two jobs.

Remember that there are other taxes - AMT, state, local, sales, property taxes that have to paid. Have you looked at a cell phone or cable bill and noticed all the taxes and fees?

And there are ways, even now, to make those taxes less.

[tomder55]

Obama is using the Clintoon canard. He campaigned on a promise of tax cuts for everyone to be paid for by a surtax on the top 2%.

His first economic speech after he was elected announced the largest tax increase in US history.

[asking]

We certainly see the need to be engaged with the rest of the world and to help where needed, but we also believe in helping others help themselves wherever possible so they too can be productive, responsible contributors to society. It’s an empowerment that brings freedom and self-respect as opposed to an “empowerment” that leads to dependence.

One of the defining concepts of this country is independence, but independence does not equal isolationism. As a conservative Republican I’m not willing to cede our independence, personally or nationally - particularly for such a lame reason as worrying about what the rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks about us. That’s silly in my opinion, and it belies the left’s mantra of diversity and tolerance of others different from ourselves. I appreciate and celebrate the individual, it would be a dull placed if everyone thought, spoke and acted the same, so why would anyone that claims to appreciate diversity and tolerance want to be more like European countries instead of being the United States of America, and additionally give up some of our sovereign rights in the process?

This all sounds great and I couldn't agree with it more. Who could object to any of this? And if this was what the Republican Party had been advocating and doing for the last 8 years, I think we'd all feel proud of the current administration. But these grand thoughts have not translated into grand actions and have, I think, turned out to be a cover for a lot of rather despiccable actions.

[speechlesstx]

This all sounds great and I couldn't agree with it more. Who could object to any of this? And if this was what the Republican Party had been advocating and doing for the last 8 years, I think we'd all feel proud of the current administration. But these grand thoughts have not translated into grand actions and have, I think, turned out to be a cover for a lot of rather despiccable actions.

First asking, this was a response to Merris' comment "After much discussion with you and other conservatives," so this was a personal perspective. But yes, the Republican party has failed in many ways to let's say, agree with my perspective. With that said, I still think they're way closer to being true to my view than the Democrats are in executing their "mantra of diversity and tolerance."

[asking]

speechlesstx, sorry if I didn't follow the thread closely. I thought you were speaking for neo conservative Republicans.

[speechlesstx]

speechlesstx, sorry if i didn't follow the thread closely. I thought you were speaking for neo conservative Republicans.

No prob. :)