[arcura]

Snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

I believe you are RIGHT... Acura! He ain't going to come back to earth but ONE more time. The rapture isn't the return of Christ.. it is US meeting him in the air! WHOO HOO! ( I get a new body... and I am going to look FAB!)

NOT that I don't already look darn good now. HA! Oh come on! You got to have a personailty in there somewheres.

[ashley0716]

I'm not sure which person wanted to know why the temple had to be built before the end of the tribulation, but the Bible states that halfway through (3 1/2 years) the tribulation, the antichrist will go sit in the temple, making claims to be THE Christ. Right now there is no temple but a year ago, the Sanhedron (the 71 rabbi's) reconvened to lay out plans and gather materials for the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem. I'm not sure which book I read it in.

[classyT]

Ash,

I wasn't me. Yes that is very true. Amazing don't you think that Israel wasn't even in exsistance for nearly 2000 years and then... BOOM May 14, 1948 it is back. What a miracle.. oh yes we are in the end times! No way around it.

[arcura]

classyT,
The air and the clouds ARE part of what makes up this earth.
There will be no rapture as described in the last days books.
It will be many years before the temple is rebuilt.
The Muslims are now in control of Temple Mount and they are not about to relinquish it back to the original owners and time soon.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Ahhh! But how quickly things change.. what do you think of this.. European Union Commission Chief and the French President are meeting with President Bush this weekend. What is wild is that the EU leaders have issued French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, a mandate to press for a financial overhaul. And, (hold on to your seat), Europe wants to present a Blueprint for a new Worldwide Currency System!

Pretty interesting my friend... if you know anything about end times at all! ( years away... I think NOT!) remember Israel wasn't even a nation for 2000 years then boom May 14, 1948 and low and behold we got Israel back on the map.

Muslim temple? Please... IS ANYTHING TO HARD FOR THE LORD?

[arcura]

classyT,
If the construction of the third temple was to begin next year it would take several years for it to be built.
The coming tribulations would slow that down considerably.
Who knows how long the tribulations will take.
WWI and WWII took from 1814 to 1949.
So as I figure the second coming is not in my moral life time. I'm 75 years old.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Hmm? Well the tribulation will take 7 years according to Daniel and Revelation. Why do you think it would take several years to build the temple?

[sndbay]

"The Word"

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

[classyT]

Sndbay,

That is describing those that or stung by what looked to be a scorpion ( John the Revelator had only things he understood back in the first century to compare it to. ) That has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING with how long the tribulation is going to be.

[sndbay]

Take note of the WOE WOE WOE because you can follow each in scripture.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound.

The First WOE

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

[sndbay]

snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, agree there is no such Rapture in "The Word".. Man came up with the doctrine.

Rapture came from a child's visions, Margaret McDonald born in 1815 who lived in Port Glasgow, Scotland during the beginning years of the Dispensationalism movement under John Nelson Darby. McDonald was fifteen years old in 1830 when she claimed to be a "prophetess." She would often go into trances and record visions of the end of the world. Not much is known about Margaret McDonald the individual, but some have attempted to prove she perhaps had an influence on the early development of Dispensationalism.

[arcura]

classyT
Check out how long it took to build it way back then
AND what the construction rules were.
Cedars from Lebanon and no iron tools, etc, are a part of it all.
Just gathering all the materials and building the icons demanded would take quite awhile.
Even today with our technology I think it would take 15 to 25 years to rebuild the temple completely.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything I need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!! See I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. Sorry... :(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!. but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like I am TWO... it is easy... try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, I am starting to realize is the problem.

[classyT]

Arcura,

From the things that I have read and heard, the orthodoxed Jews have been gathering the materials for years... just fyi.

[sndbay]

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything i need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!!!! see I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. sorry ....:(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!!..but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like i am TWO.....it is easy...try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, i am starting to realize is the problem.

Margaret MacDonald reportedly had a PROPHETIC END-TIME VISION which gained credibility and spread

Margaret McDonald said the rapture would only take those that were filled with the Holy Spirit; and Norton claimed that only those that had been sealed with the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands would be raptured. Definitely confusion ensued.

Scripture tells us "God is not the author of confusion" (I Cor. 14:33).

NO RAPTURE, JUST MUCH TRIBULATION

Was Job raptured out of his time of tribulation (testing)? NO
Was Joseph raptured out of the pit or prison? NO
Was Daniel raptured out of the lion's den? NO
Was King David raptured out of all his tribulation? NO
Exodus 7:18 through 12:30 records the Israelites were IN Egypt for all ten plagues of God's wrath.
Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego raptured out of the firery furnace? NO
Was Jesus or any of the Apostles raptured out of their persecution? NO
Was Paul raptured out of all his tribulations (2 Corithians 11:23-27)? NO

[classyT]

LOL SND<

Was JOB part of the Church? NO and by the way, there will be no tribulation like this. There have been hard trials in many lives... but see the difference here... GOD IS POURING OUT HIS WRATH UPON THE EARTH! Not just a little trial. And NO, we are His BRIDE... we aren't going through it.

FYI... if it an't in the word.. I don't care what some prophetess said. John Darby didn't get the info from HER.. he got it from Paul!

[classyT]

How could Jesus be raptured? Get real. Why would he be? He was sent to die. Paul called his afflictions "light". They weren't of course but it wasn't GOD'S WRATH. Wow! Don't you understand the difference? Let me put some light on this for you... those millions of Jews that were killed in the holocaust?. well that is going to seem like a Sunday school picnic compared to what is going to happen. The WRATH will be poured out on ALL those who have rejected Jesus... and that isn't me.

[arcura]

classyT,
Bleive me and the boble please.
There will be no Rapture as it is being taught.
But if not wait and see that it will not happen.
There will be just one return of Christ.
Read the book "The Rapture Trap".
It and other books on that subject disprove the rapture.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Arcura,

Can't believe you.. I believe the BIBLE. But you are right.. no since in arguing about it.. we will find out.


By the way... who wrote "the rapture trap'?

And while I have your ear? Do you eat Pork. I know you are cathoic... I think they can eat it. Am I right.