[Galveston1]

This "messiah" thread is as good as anyplace to bring this up
Obama and Ayers served together on an "education" board.
Ayers speaks in Venezuala saying (short version) that childern should be educated against capatilism and for socialism.
Couple this with a statement that I heard Obama make that he wanted a more "hands on" approach to education by the federal government. All this makes me very nervous! It doesn't bother you?

[jillianleab]

Seriously... you need to get out of that box!

I hear this all the time.

This is the equivalent of voting for someone based on their skin color, or age?

Is that really progress?

MLK said people should be judged on the content of their charater.

Is voting for a "black" man just because it is monumental or historical really true to what MLK spoke of?

Is voting for or against Obama because of his skin color really progress?
Is voting for or against McCain because he is "an old white dude" really progress?

Where did I say people should vote for Obama because he's black? Or vote for McCain because he's an old white dude? Where did I even begin in imply it? The progress is in the fact that finally a black man might be president of the United States.

Oddly enough, are there voters saying I'm voting for the McCain/Palin ticket because it would be historic or monumental to have the first female VP?

A lot of people say she is not qualified.

Can the same be said of Obama?

Very true, I'm sure a lot of people will vote for McCain because Palin is a woman. Stupid reason to vote for someone, but it's still their right.

If a white voter does not vote for Obama, can it be because they do not think he is not qualified or don't agree with his stance on certain issues, and has nothing to do with the fact that he is half black?

Of course it can, where did I say it can't? I know lots of white people who aren't voting for Obama - not because of his race, but because of his policies. That's the way it should be. Nothing racist about that.

And why the hell do you keep putting 'black' in quotations? :confused:

[BABRAM]

1] What if Obama is elected, and like any human being, he is not perfect and makes some bad choices or the economy gets worse or does not get better fast enough; will his followers then become apostates?

Did you vote for Dubya? That thumping noise heard around the nation is the Pubs hitting the ground after bailing off the Bush bandwagon. And now many of them that voted for Dubya, not once, but twice, are pitching their tents with McCain.

2] What if Obama does not get elected, what will his followers still worship him as a senator?

I once heard a Rabbi give a drash (sermon) and speak of secular/religious matters saying, "if it swims, flies, crawls, runs, or stands on two legs to walk, we (Jews) don't worship it." Are you accusing people like myself, one of millions that support the Democrat nominee in this election, that I'm worshipping Obama??

BTW:

If I were to vote purely on the basis of color, for a "black" man for POTUS, it would be Tiger Woods in 2012.

Actually I think Tiger Woods is closer to representing the United Nations than based on supporters purely voting for someone that is Black. I think he's part Asian, part Caucasian, and part African American.

[jillianleab]

This "messiah" thread is as good as anyplace to bring this up
Obama and Ayers served together on an "education" board.
Ayers speaks in Venezuala saying (short version) that childern should be educated against capatilism and for socialism.
Couple this with a statement that I heard Obama make that he wanted a more "hands on" approach to education by the federal government. All this makes me very nervous! It doesn't bother you?

Aww... what's the matter, Gal? Can't respond to the counter I gave about the Obama Youth video, so now you have to throw in something else that looks damning? You're grasping, really.

[speechlesstx]

Gal wasn't grasping, it's a legitimate concern.

Obama's Real Problem With Ayers

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Election '08: At an education forum in Venezuela, Bill Ayers showed the real issue is not his terrorist past. It's the socialist revolutionary agenda that he and Barack Obama want to impose on the nation's schools.

Still more evidence of how the media are in the tank for Obama was evident in Tom Brokaw's description of Ayers on Sunday's "Meet The Press."

"School reformer" is how Brokaw identified the co-founder of the Weather Underground, the radical organization that, among other activities, bombed government buildings, banks, police departments and military bases in the early 1970s.

Yeah, right: Ayers is a school reformer in the same sense, as City Journal's Sol Stern put it, as Joe Stalin was an agricultural reformer.

An idea of what Ayers has in mind for America's schools was provided in his own words not 40 years ago when Obama was eight years old, but less than two years ago in November 2006 at the World Education Forum in Caracas hosted by dictator Hugo Chavez.

With Chavez at his side, Ayers voiced his support for "the political educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution.. . I look forward to seeing how.. . All of you continue to overcome the failures of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane."

Ayers told the great humanitarian Chavez: "Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions large and small. La educacion es revolucion." It is that form of socialist revolution that Ayers, and Obama, have worked to bring to America.

Ayers, now a tenured Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois, Chicago, works to educate teachers in socialist revolutionary ideology, urging that it be passed on to impressionable students.

As Stern points out, "Ayers and his education school comrades are explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children in the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive."

If Ayers was just another nutty professor, we'd be lucky. But he wields great influence in academic circles and has had Obama's ear. He's the author or editor of 15 books. Chicago's current mayor, Richard M. Daley, has employed Ayers as a teacher trainer for Chicago's public schools and consulted him on the city's education-reform plans.

Just last month, Ayers was elected vice-president for curriculum for the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association. AERA is the nation's largest organization of education-school professors and researchers.

In a recent interview on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor," Obama upgraded Ayers' status from "a guy who lives in my neighborhood" to "somebody who worked on education issues in Chicago that I know."

Actually, Obama knew him quite well, having worked together on a school "reform" project called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

In the 1990s, Ayers was instrumental in starting the Annenberg Challenge, securing a $50 million grant to reform the Chicago Public Schools, part of a national initiative funded by the late Ambassador Walter Annenberg.

Obama was given the Annenberg board chairmanship only months before his first run for office. He ran the fiscal arm that distributed grants to schools and raised matching funds.

Ayers participated in a second entity known as the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, the operational arm that worked with grant recipients.

During Obama's tenure as Annenberg board chairman, Ayers' own education projects received substantial funding.

One of Ayers' descriptions for a course called "Improving Learning Environments" says a prospective K-12 teacher needs to "be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, teaching for social justice and liberation."

John McCain needs to repeatedly point out the stealth socialism of Ayers' education agenda and Obama's complicity in it. Otherwise, we may one day see Ayers as Obama's secretary of education.

[BABRAM]

G. Gordon Liddy: John McCain Finds His Own Radical

"John McCain has had a field day with Barack Obama's tenuous associations with Bill Ayers, a former member of the Weather Underground who is now a Chicago professor.

Obama has said repeatedly that Ayers' radical past (he was involved in a handful of bombings in the 1960s) occurred when Barack was just a child, and he repudiates those actions. Nevertheless, McCain wants more. He claimed recently:

"I think not only a repudiation but an apology for ever having anything to do with an unrepentant terrorist is due the American people."

Now, however, the Chicago Tribune is pointing out McCain's own radical associations with G. Gordon Liddy.

How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns--including $1,000 this year.

Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."


For those who are unaware, Liddy helped plan the Watergate break-in that would cost Nixon his presidency and landed Liddy a four-year jail sentence.

But Liddy's career of inflammatory statements and actions exceed his Watergate actions.

Liddy, on Vitenam:

"I wanted to bomb the Red River dykes [sic]. It would have drowned half the country and starved the other half. There would have been no way the Viet Cong could have operated if we had the will-power to do that."

Liddy, advising Branch Davidians how to defend themselves from ATF agents during a radio show:

"If the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms insists upon a firefight, give them a firefight. Just remember, they're wearing flak jackets and you're better off shooting for the head."

Liddy, on the impact Adolf Hitler had on him as a child:

When he listened to Hitler on the radio, it "made me feel a strength inside I had never known before," he explains. "Hitler's sheer animal confidence and power of will [entranced me]. He sent an electric current through my body.""

[talaniman]

The Truth about the Annenberg Board - Politics, News and Sports - AOL Message Boards,

Hmmmmm!

[tomder55]

Yes it is well known that Walter Annenberg was a Republican and donated money for education .It is also a fact that Ayers and Obama hijacked the project (much like socialist radicals have hijacked the Democratic Party) and turned it into a place to funnel money to radical education efforts. Walter Annenberg would not have approved the way his money was spent .

[speechlesstx]

Bobby, it's good you admit that these associations matter. One would think being a friend of Liddy might endear McCain to the left seeing as how he has been embraced by Hollywood a number of times, even guest starring on Al Franken’s show Lateline. But then Liddy thinks fighting terrorists is a good thing and actually served his time – before being pardoned by Jimmy Carter.

[BABRAM]

I'm glad to hear that your so concerned that you're reconsidering not voting for McCain. I mean squandering your vote, not once, but twice on Dubya was bad enough.


"Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

Liddy, on Vitenam:

"I wanted to bomb the Red River dykes [sic]. It would have drowned half the country and starved the other half. There would have been no way the Viet Cong could have operated if we had the will-power to do that."

Liddy, advising Branch Davidians how to defend themselves from ATF agents during a radio show:

"If the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms insists upon a firefight, give them a firefight. Just remember, they're wearing flak jackets and you're better off shooting for the head."

Liddy, on the impact Adolf Hitler had on him as a child:

When he listened to Hitler on the radio, it "made me feel a strength inside I had never known before," he explains. "Hitler's sheer animal confidence and power of will [entranced me]. He sent an electric current through my body.""

[Galveston1]

It is plain that Ayers wants to "program" the youth of this country, and Obama's association with him is hardly "tenuous".
Now with the dirt on ACORN coming to light, it seems Obama has a whole circle of radical people as friends.

[jillianleab]

Gal wasn't grasping, it's a legitimate concern.

It's grasping because instead of sticking to the first "issue" he brought up, he's bailed on that one and come up with another one. Legitimate concern or not, switching to a new topic without acknowledging the argument against the first is pathetic and grasping.

[Galveston1]

It's grasping because instead of sticking to the first "issue" he brought up, he's bailed on that one and come up with another one. Legitimate concern or not, switching to a new topic without acknowledging the argument against the first is pathetic and grasping.

Not so! There is SO MUCH information about Obama that has been swept under the rug that the supply seems inexhaustable!
So the "Obama Youth" is a bunch of extremist flakes. It fits with the theme of the thread.

[ldybg51]

Wow. It still amazes me how GROWN people talk and act and treat each other.

[jillianleab]

Not so! There is SO MUCH information about Obama that has been swept under the rug that the supply seems inexhaustable!
So the "Obama Youth" is a bunch of extremist flakes. It fits with the theme of the thread.

I didn't say the Obama Youth video didn't fit with the theme of the thread (though it IS off topic, perhaps you should have started your own?). Keep up - You posted the Obama Youth thing, I responded. Instead of responding to that, you threw in the bit about Ayers. Thus, I concluded that you can't rebutt, so you changed the topic. Grasping. Pathetic.

Please see my sig.

[speechlesstx]

I'm glad to hear...

"I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough" -William Ayers

[BABRAM]

When Bill Ayers and G. Gordon Liddy run for president let me know. I'll toss a coin.

[talaniman]

You know Speech, your right in that we must know both candidates very well before a decision is made and its telling that you pick a lot of stuff out on one candidate and not the other, which is why we have 8 years of Bush and are where we are as a nation now. There seems to be as much on the web about McCain as Obama, but you seem willing to over look, as his being censure for bad judgment, for his role in the Keating 5 debacle, that led to convictions. Funny how you can jump on Ayers, who never went to jail for what he did, and became a noted professor.

Former '60s Radical Is Now Considered Mainstream in Chicago - washingtonpost.com

http://www.keatingeconomics.com/?sou...FQNaFQod8VY76Q

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_133242.html
My point being your fears are one way, and based on facts you haven't checked, as the republican candidate has as much eye opening stuff, as you say the democratic one has. Why are you just focused on one, and not the other, in this time of financial disaster??

[tomder55]

Ayers never went to jail because the Feds screwed up the case ;not because he wasn't guilty as hell. He admits it and wishes he did more.

Everyone now is downplaying it but those were real bombs that were detonated and in a couple of cases meant to kill. They set 3 bombs loaded up with gasoline at the home of New York State Supreme Court justice Murtagh as he ;his wife and 2 sons slept in the house. Judge Murtagh was running the trial of the “Panther 21.” who were indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn.

When asked by the NY Slimes if he would do it all again, Ayers responded: “I don't want to discount the possibility.”

Those are the words of the so called noted professor .

Hezbollah commits acts of terrorism and runs schools in Lebanon to indoctrinate the next generation . No one would mistake them for being anything other than terrorists.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html

[speechlesstx]

You know Speech, your right in that we must know both candidates very well before a decision is made and its telling that you pick a lot of stuff out on one candidate and not the other, which is why we have 8 years of Bush and are where we are as a nation now.

You know tal, why would anyone expect me, who if anyone has paid any attention knows I think liberalism is a scourge on this country, would spend any time purposely knocking the Republican candidate? I'm highly partisan, what a shocker, eh? As I said before though, what were our other choices, Gore and Kerry? I shudder to think of what this country might have become under their “leadership.”

There seems to be as much on the web about McCain as Obama, but you seem willing to over look, as his being censure for bad judgment, for his role in the Keating 5 debacle, that led to convictions. Funny how you can jump on Ayers, who never went to jail for what he did, and became a noted professor.

It’s easy to jump on Ayers, he’s an unrepentant terrorist, and it’s common sense to question Obama’s judgment for having relationships with this man, the man he says was “just a guy in my neighborhood” who happened to work with him on “education” projects and hosted his Illinois senate launch party in his home. If Obama has such sound judgment how in God’s name can he have gone this long without realizing hey, this guy’s an unrepentant terrorist and I want no part of that?

My point being your fears are one way, and based on facts you haven't checked, as the republican candidate has as much eye opening stuff, as you say the democratic one has. Why are you just focused on one, and not the other, in this time of financial disaster??

What eye opening stuff is there about McCain? The part where he was cleared of any wrongdoing? The part where his "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate," according to the ethics committee findings? The part where he was repentant and regretful unlike Ayers when he admitted "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do?" There is no comparison, tal.

As far as “just focused on one, and not the other, in this time of financial disaster” goes, why is no one focusing on the Democrats who had a hand in this and instead blaming it all on Bush? Why is no one focusing on the Democrats who control congress after riding in to save the day on their white Trojan horses 2 years ago but spent the entire time obstructing, obscuring, investigating and wasting our time and money?