[cogs]

What is the lord's word? How does the holy spirit speak? Also, if we should shed tears, wouldn't that have more meaning than something inanimate?

[Tj3]

There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in alot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

Visions of Jesus Christ.com - Weeping statues and Icons

Mary's Touch

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

[addaddadd]

As I say, the important thing is to follow Jesus' message to us. Which implies complying with the 11 Commandments! That's All

Did you 10 commandments! Following Jesus message is not complying with 10 commandments. You are so wrong on that my brother. 10 commandments is law of moses. You will not be save by 10 commandments. According to the bible on Acts 13:39 "And by Him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

[Tj3]

Tears and some of these beliefs, as I already said, do not add much, if anything, to our knowledge of GOD, as you say.
However, we cannot neglect or ignore other accepted occurrences like the ones in Lourdes or Fatima, or the much more recent in Medjugorje (Citluk, Bosnia y Herzegovina) where for the last 15 years in a row /from June 24th, 1981) The Virgin has been appearing almost on a daily basis to the 6 children, that are now grown up men and women.
Incidentally, ALL the towns and villages surrounding Medjugorje were almost fully destroyed during the war (1992/1995) BUT, for some strange reason, Medjugorje was spared... Not a single shell fell into the town!

It would be best to depend upon the facts and not unsubstantiated rumours.

Check out these 2 pages of a book which provides some factual information regarding the impact of the war on Medjugorje. Clearly any claims that it was untouched are completely fabricated.

Neighbors at War: Anthropological ... - Google Book Search

[Tj3]

As I say, the important thing is to follow Jesus' message to us. Which implies complying with the 11 Commandments! That's All

The important thing is to receive Jesus as Saviour. Since no one has ever perfectly obeyed the law (Rom 3:23), it is impossible to be saved through obedience to the law. Further if we fail to obey one point of the law, we are guilty of failing to obey all of the law:

James 2:9-11
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
NKJV

Therefore we cannot depend upon obedience to the law for salvation. The purpose of the law was to point us to Christ:

Gal 3:24
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
NKJV

When we receive Christ as Saviour, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us, and it is through the empowering of the Holy Spirit that we are able to obey the law, not in letter, but in spirit.

[cogs]

...When we receive Christ as Saviour, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us, and it is through the empowering of the Holy Spirit that we are able to obey the law, not in letter, but in spirit.

Since we couldn't follow the law without the spirit, what will change that we can follow the law with the spirit? What's the difference in us?

[Tj3]

since we couldn't follow the law without the spirit, what will change that we can follow the law with the spirit? what's the difference in us?

The Holy Spirit indwells, guides and empowers those who are saved as we submit ourselves to Him.

[saintjoan]

The Bible says we are not to make or bow down to any image.
Exodus 20:4-6 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

[spyderglass]

I would want to take a closer look at the Mary statue, myself. Recently on the history channel they have been re-creating Greek and Roman 'miracles'. Statues that cry or pour forth water... etc.
There are mechanical ways that can explain a crying statue.
But it doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what YOU believe and how it affects you.

[gromitt82]

The Bible says we are not to make or bow down to any image.
Exodus 20:4-6 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The Bible also says that GOD created the Universe in SIX days and in the seventh GOD decided to take a rest (Genesis 2: 1- 3), and I expect you do not accept that as a dogma.

If we have to accept what most exegetes say, the Exodus was written by Moses around the 15th century BC. In those days, probably due to the Egyptian and Mesopotamian Pantheons, there was a certain trend to worship all kind of gods and goddesses, many of them represented by animal parts or even animal figures.

Obviously, Moses was trying to avoid this “hobby” to spread too much. Not very successfully, though. For while he was at the Sinai Mountain, his brother Aaron built a Golden Calf and let the Israelites adore it!!!

The Bible has to be interpreted with a certain amount of logic, and not necessarily in accordance with our preferences...

Thus, it is unlikely that in Exodus 20:4-6 4, Moses may have been thinking of the future Mother of our Lord... when he spoke of “any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above”.

Anyway, nobody forces you to consider bowing down to any image of the Virgin Mary. It is just a matter of preferences. I prefer to bow down to an image of the Virgin or Jesus rather than doing it before the image of the Beatles, as many youngsters use to do way back in the 60s...

[gromitt82]

I would want to take a closer look at the Mary statue, myself. Recently on the history channel they have been re-creating Greek and Roman 'miracles'. Statues that cry or pour forth water...etc.
There are mechanical ways that can explain a crying statue.
But it doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what YOU believe and how it affects you.

You are absolutely right. What you -or I- may believe DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. WHAT DOES IS HOW IT MAY AFFECT TO THE THOUSANDS GOING TO LOURDES EVERY YEAR -just one example- to the point that EVERY YEAR there are one or two healings that medical doctors CANNOT explain!!! They keep a register of these unexplainable cures signed by eminent doctors.
Anyway, these cures would be hard to explain by using mechanical ways...

[Tj3]

The Bible also says that GOD created the Universe in SIX days and in the seventh GOD decided to take a rest (Genesis 2: 1- 3), and I expect you do not accept that as a dogma.

Are you saying that you don't believe what the Bible says?

I believe it.

Thus, it is unlikely that in Exodus 20:4-6 4, Moses may have been thinking of the future Mother of our Lord... when he spoke of “any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above”.

Then are we to assume that you do not believe that God was thinking of that, or that scripture is wrong when it says that it is inspired by God?

Personally, I believe the Bible when it says that God is omniscient - do you believe that?

Anyway, nobody forces you to consider bowing down to any image of the Virgin Mary. It is just a matter of preferences. I prefer to bow down to an image of the Virgin or Jesus rather than doing it before the image of the Beatles, as many youngsters use to do way back in the 60s...

The question is whether it is acceptable, according to scripture to do so. The Bible is very clear on this point.

[gromitt82]

Are you saying that you don't believe what the Bible says?

I believe it.



Then are we to assume that you do not believe that God was thinking of that, or that scripture is wrong when it says that it is inspired by God?

Personally, I believe the Bible when it says that God is omniscient - do you believe that?



The question is whether it is acceptable, according to scripture to do so. The Bible is very clear on this point.

Sorry, but I refuse to enter into any kind of debate over double meaning and captious questions.

[Tj3]

Sorry, but I refuse to enter into any kind of debate over double meaning and captious questions. [/I]

When God says that we "shall not" do something, I think that is more than just a trivial matter and hardly "double meaning". But I do agree that God left no room for debate for over the matter.

[De Maria]

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

Here's what else Scripture says:

1 Thessalonians 5 20 Despise not prophecies. 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Tj3]

Here's what else Scripture says:

1 Thessalonians 5 20 Despise not prophecies. 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Can something be good if God shall that you shall not do it?

To me the answer is obviously NO.

[De Maria]

Can something be good if God shall that you shall not do it?

To me the answer is obviously NO.

This is correct. But it is a non sequitur.

Here is the previous message:

TJ said:

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

But when God provides a sign, are we to despise it?

No.

Therefore when God provides the sign of the Virgin Mary as described in Scripture:
Apocalypse 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

The Church does not despise this prophecy but tests it and if it is good, holds on to it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Tj3]

This is correct. But it is a non sequitur.

Not at all. God did give that exact command.

Here is the previous message:

TJ said:

We are not seek after signs. Here is what scripture says:

Matt 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
NKJV

But when God provides a sign, are we to despise it?

No.

Does God gives signs contrary to His commandments? No.

Therefore when God provides the sign of the Virgin Mary as described in Scripture:
Apocalypse 12 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

First, that prophecy is not usually understood to be Mary, but rather the church. Note that this does not take place at the time of the 1st century, but rather is a future revelation.

So this is no proof of anything, but we do know that God will never contradict His word.

[De Maria]

Not at all. God did give that exact command.

Correct. Despise not prophecies.

Does God gives signs contrary to His commandments? No.

Also correct.

First, that prophecy is not usually understood to be Mary,

Sure it is. Mary is the only woman who gave birth to Christ.

but rather the church.

Only as an image of Mary. Since Mary gave birth to Christ and the Church gives birth to Christians in Baptism.

Note that this does not take place at the time of the 1st century, but rather is a future revelation.

Sure it does. St. John saw this vision in heaven.

So this is no proof of anything, but we do know that God will never contradict His word.

Sure it is. It is proof that the Catholic Church is perfectly consistent with Scripture on the handling of prophecy.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[cogs]

There has been lots of Miracles coming from the Virigin Mary Statues and also sightings of her as well. Icons such as the Madonna and even Pictures of Jesus Christ Crying Blood.
These have been seen my Millions of people at the same time, in certain parts of the world. I believe that this has to be some kind of message from God that the world is in alot of trouble and heading for a disaster. Even my Supervisor saw her Aunts Statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother Cry on three different occasions, it was not blood but just tears.
Her Aunt who is the owner never saw her do that, but it was revealed to my supervisor for some reason, and she is a Believer in God, but she is a non-practicing Catholic. Anyway here is a web.site on all of these wonderous things that have been happening all over the world.

What's italicized in green, sounds like this:

Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of Jehovah's house which was toward the north; and behold, there sat the women weeping for Tammuz.

There's no evidence the tears are some kind of message from god. But the world has been, and is, in a lot of trouble and heading for disaster, if we continue worshipping false gods:

Eze 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in wrath; mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.