[agnathan]

Hi everyone,

I'm 19 years old and live in Ontario. A while back I was charged with theft under and possession under $5000 after taking items from a store. The security guard caught me and took me to the back, told me my rights, etc, and called the police; an officer showed up and told me what was going to happen, she gave me a fingerprinting date and a court date, then the mall security gave me a sheet of "intended legal action notice". The notice basically says they will be sending me a bill of the losses and if I don't pay it they will take me to court. DO NOT PAY THE BILL SENT BY THE STORE, I can't stress it enough, DO NOT PAY THE BILL SENT BY THE STORE. Just think about it, whatever you took can't be worth over $300~600, yet they are billing you for that much. The mall is taking advantage of you losing your mind over the matter - what REALLY pissed me off was that the officer even supported the security guard's argument.

Anyway I had my fingerprinting about a month after the incident and it was an easy process that took about 15 minutes. I had my court date about a week or two after the fingerprint date. I went to the court about half an hour earlier and the court officer handed me a sheet and told me to go talk to a duty cousel who did all the paperwork, then the duty counsel sent me to the probation office (as I was offered the diversion/alt. measures program).

I had to tell the probation officer what I did and why I did, just be straight forward and honest with your answers. Because I had to go out of province to work during the summer, the probation officer tried to work with my schedule and came up with a solution to have me finish the diversion program before I go (very nice). So I have to write an essay regarding the incident and donate $200 to a charity and show the probation officer the recipt, that was it. I walk away clean and they destroy fingerprints and records of the incident in two years, however at the end of the two years time I should go sk for a criminal record check to make sure that they have wiped the record.

The probation officer was the one who told me that I didn't have to pay the $300~600 bill that the mall sent, unfortunately it was already a month since the notice so I have already paid it :( the officer even told me that the cops should've stayed out of it, she even gave me an article on it - so much for the cops being justice enforcers -_-

One thing though, go to the court in at least a semi-formal attire to show them you take it seriously (attitude matters too of course).

So, if you skipped the long writing or you read all of it, the take home message here is:
- DO NOT PAY THE BILL THAT THE MALL SENT
- Don't stress over it, you've made a mistake, just learn from it and don't do it again
- DO NOT PAY THE BILL THAT THE MALL SENT

Hope this helps

P.S. Thanks everyone who helped me on the site before

[N0help4u]

They charged you for what it costs them when a person shoplifts.
They say when someone shoplifts it costs the store a lot of money.
I wonder what they would have done if you refused to pay?
They may have taken you to court and charged you more?

[agnathan]

The court officer explained to me that it's not justified on their part, and few lawyers have refused to send out billing notices after they are called in by the social department (ironically some parents took the matter to court after they received the bill), what you said was exactly what I said to the probation officer, but this was what she had told me.

[N0help4u]

Yeah I think if that happened to me I would have told them I would settle it while I was in court. I would never pay a bill that I questioned until it came down to having to pay it.

[Alty]

The fact remains, you did the crime. Instead of complaining about the cost, learn the lesson. This could all have been avoided if you hadn't broken the law.

[agnathan]

The fact remains, you did the crime. Instead of complaining about the cost, learn the lesson. This could all have been avoided if you hadn't broken the law.

I think its more than just the cost that I'm focused on, quite a few people I've seen on this site are going through similar situations and I'm just trying to help. Legal consequences can't be avoided (shouldn't be anyway) but unjustified bills can. Some people might not be able to afford the sent bill.

Perhaps that I've taken the tone of the reply wrong, and I do apologize in advance, but you make it sound as if I tried to deny my crime, what use is there to deny something that I've done? Especially anonymously over the internet? And telling me that this could've been avoided if I hadn't broken the law is like telling me I could've avoided getting hit by a car if I hadn't ran into the street, don't state the obvious and try to help those that actually need it.

[N0help4u]

I have noticed the majority of the posts on shoplifting on this site are from Canada.
There was just one today right before this one.

[Alty]

I have noticed the majority of the posts on shoplifting on this site are from Canada.
There was just one today right before this one.

Well, that's encouraging. NOT!

Maybe it's time for me to move.)

OP, I'm just saying that the time to think about the consequences was before you stole. It's a bit late now. Complaining about the cost is a bit childish in my opinion. Trying to get away with paying less is ridiculous. Your actions caused allot of people problems, that's what you are paying for, either way, it's better than jail, isn't it?

[N0help4u]

I can give you the links from here. I was just stating it as an observation and wondering why.

[agnathan]

Well, that's encouraging. NOT!

Maybe it's time for me to move.)

OP, I'm just saying that the time to think about the consequences was before you stole. It's a bit late now. Complaining about the cost is a bit childish in my opinion. Trying to get away with paying less is ridiculous. Your actions caused allot of people problems, that's what you are paying for, either way, it's better than jail, isn't it?

I'm not trying to get away with "paying less", I'm just happy I was offered a chance to correct what I did wrong. I'm not happy about the police officer who just stood by as the security guard told me about the bill that will be sent to me. Would you not have been angry if you paid for something you didn't need to? Here are the exact words between the probation officer and I:

PO: "...why did you pay the bill?"
Me: "Because I did something wrong."
PO: "... No, call it extortion, scam, whatever you want, they have no right to do that. Why didn't you do your research before paying the bill? If I sent you a letter demanding $300 what would you say to me?"
Me: "But the police officer who charged me told me to."
PO: *Sigh* "Sometimes I wish they could just stay out of it, it's not their field"

Afterwards it made sense, the store is not the law, while it is true that they suffer a huge loss from shoplifting but they offset it by raising the price? Wal-Mart and HBC department stores earn excess of millions a year and they get quite a bit of shoplifters (not that it justifies shoplifting). I was going to court anyway why couldn't they have just settled it there?

I did do my research and found that some people in my situation who got a lawyer told them to ignore the letter, however, the POLICE OFFICER told me to pay the bill, that's what I'm angry about, are they not supposed to be fair and just?

[N0help4u]

Many Police go by what they think sounds law abiding they do not know the legalities. They only know how to deal with the actual occurrence so it is better to listen to the lawyer over the police.
I have noticed that many places are trying to get away with whatever they can to get money I guess this is another. Like people's taxes go toward paying for people doing time in jail yet some communities are charging them so much for each 24 hours they spend in jail on top of the tax payers money.
A lot of collection agencies are freezing people's bank accounts to get their money and not concerned that it is the persons rent, utility, food and car payment money.
Banks are taking $35. + per day that you have an overdraw.

[agnathan]

Thank you, I'm a bit more reassured now that I know it's unintentional by the police

[excon]

however, the POLICE OFFICER told me to pay the bill, that's what I'm angry about, are they not supposed to be fair and just?

Hello ag:

Snicker... snicker... lol... Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

[Thechaks]

Hi Agnathan,

You presentation in the court was in toronto or other city? What was the amount of theft involved? Was that HBC?

Thanks,

[agnathan]

Hi Agnathan,

You presentation in the court was in toronto or other city? What was the amount of theft involved? was that HBC?

Thanks,

It wasn't in toronto but pretty close to it and it wasn't hbc, amount of theft was probably around 60~70 I think

[Thechaks]

Thanks Agnathan!

One more quick question:
Is there a second court date after first hearing or they just finish all process in the first hearing only? If yes, then do anyone have a idea after how many days one must appear second time in the court after first hearing? And during that period can the person travel?

Will appreciate your response.

[agnathan]

Thanks Agnathan!

One more quick question:
Is there a second court date after first hearing or they just finish all process in the first hearing only? If yes, then do anyone have a idea after how many days one must appear second time in the court after first hearing? and during that period can the person travel?

Will appreciate your response.

For me it was just one hearing because I got the diversion program... the hearing is nothing like the ones seen on TV, just a small room with a judge and some transcribers... you don't have to say anything a duty counsel will represent you if you get a diversion program, just complete your diversion before the set date and you should be OK.

You don't have to go to court again if you finish your diversion program within the set time, but you do have to show up to the organization responsible for the program and tell them you have finished the program.

[Thechaks]

Thanks Agnathan! Appreciate your prompt response.

My court date is on 29th may.So, do you mean I need to go 1 hour prior to the time given in the ticket and request duty councel for the diversion programme? Will they offer diversion right away or what? What do we need to tell them? Can you please explain a bit more into this process?

Thanks,

[agnathan]

Your diversion program is pre-determined I believe, as when I went there they just handed me a sheet with "diversion" indicated on the bottom... the court officer told me to go see a duty cousel where they will do all the paperwork; after they are done with the paperwork you go see the probation officer, he/she will tell you what to do if you are offered the program, after that's done you wait a few more minutes to be directed into a small courtroom where the duty counsel that filled your paperwork briefs the court and you just stand by him/her, get your diversion program done and go see your probation officer and it should be OK.

Also 1 hour might be too early I just went half hour early... because there are a lot of people that need to see the duty counsel

[Thechaks]

Thanks Agnathan!

Is it regardless of the theft amount? I have a theft amount of 500$, do I should request for diversion or they give it by their own? Am scared now. Can you please guide me?