[jillianleab]

There appears to be something missing from this thread...

[Fr_Chuck]

No, there was a post or two that crossed the line and were deleted as are many posts on various boards. Even "discussion" boards have limits.

And several posts all talking about why a post was deleted or complaing why a post was deleted, since there were merely chat and not part of the post.

As noted before, discussion boards allow more jabbing back and forth than regular boards, but they are not rule free by any means.

There were no posts deleted that added to either side of the discussion on this thread.

[jillianleab]

All I said is there appears to be something missing...

But I saw the original post, and the subsequent posts. I viewed it as a legit question, apparently you did not.

[talaniman]

As I remember it, its fact that early Christians used the same type of reasoning when deciding what to put in the bible. Even though there are contradictions, there is no dissenting opinions, therefore it is not questioned what the truth is, or who speaks it. What a great way to squash free thought, just delete it, and it never existed.

[Fr_Chuck]

No actually what went into the bible was looked into very carefully.
They looked at what was the most used and also looked at which versions were not fully accepted. ( this is of course for the new testement since the old testement was long set) In fact all of the other non used texts are still avialable, for things such as the Acts of Thomas and other writings.

And keeping posts that are of an attacking nature off the boards has little to do with how the bible as determined,

The referring of them is beyond silly.

[Moparbyfar]

Me too.

Yeh my bad. I should have used a word like remarkable, extaordinary, outstanding. :o

And Talaniman I guess you do not know that not all christians believe the same things. Only TRUE Christians follow and imitate Jesus example as set out in the bible. This is what sets them apart from the others, as there is no mention in the bible of a literal hell, pergatory, all going to heaven, but they remain separate from the 'world' by staying neutral toward politics and war and preaching diligently to all nations.

[talaniman]

no actually what went into the bible was looked into very carefully.

I bet it was scrutinized very carefully. By a hand picked few.

[talaniman]

I guess you do not know that not all christians believe the same things.
Only TRUE Christians follow and imitate Jesus example as set out in the bible. This is what sets them apart from the others,

Yes I do know, it seems to be a matter of interpretation. Doesn't matter as they all BELIEVE that they are right, and to be fair, that applies to everyone.

[jillianleab]

And Talaniman I guess you do not know that not all christians believe the same things. Only TRUE Christians follow and imitate Jesus example as set out in the bible. This is what sets them apart from the others, as there is no mention in the bible of a literal hell, pergatory, all going to heaven, but they remain separate from the 'world' by staying neutral toward politics and war and preaching diligently to all nations.

It's been my impression all Christians think they are TRUE Christians and are following the example Jesus set; and that's part of the problem. The bible is interpreted many, many ways, any everyone thinks their interpretation is "right".

Take the people with Army of God for example, who have murdered abortion providers and justify their actions with scripture; I know many, many Christians who would NEVER murder a person, because it is not their place - that's god's job. It doesn't matter what this person does for a living, because, "thou shalt not murder" (there's something about judgement in there too). But do you think the members of Army of God think they are not "TRUE" Christians? Or is it more likely they think YOU are not a "TRUE" Christian because you don't murder abortion providers (assuming you don't of course!)?

There are other examples too, some people condemn homosexuality using scripture; I've seen others use scripture to justify it. It goes around and around... because it's all interpretation.

So that being said, really, how can you prove the bible is factual, when Christians themselves can't agree on what is literal and what is figurative? If the bible were factual, shouldn't all people who read it get the same thing from it?

And further, why would what went into the bible need to be scrutinized if it is all the inspired word of god? If that's the case, shouldn't each part be equally important? Why would god inspire men to write his message, and then allow man to decide what "makes the cut"? It just doesn't make sense...

[ordinaryguy]

The real fact is that they don't want there to be a God, if there is, they will be judged, and they will have to answer to someone besides thierself,

How can you presume to know another person's motive for not believing? If it's OK for you to judge their motive for not believing, then is it OK for them to judge your motive for believing? Like for example, saying that you do it because it makes you feel superior and special? No, I didn't think so. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you.

And by the way, the word "their" is spelled their, not thier, and even if it's spelled right, "theirself" is not a word.

[Moparbyfar]

And obviously not all interpretations are right, and as 2 Pet 3:15,16 shows, by twisting the scriptures to fit our own ideas can result in lasting harm.

Matt 15:8,9 also shows us how religious leaders "honor him (Jesus) with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from him and that it is in vain they keep worshipping him because they teach commands of men as doctrines."

The trinity concept - borrowed from pagan sources and developed after the Bible was completed. (A manmade doctrine and misinterprited in the Bible)
Churches today hardly ever mention the kingdom of God and what it will accomplish - something Jesus did even saying at Luke 4:43 "Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth."

Of course all religions will argue till they're black and blue in the face that theirs is the TRUE religion, but I take all my beliefs from the Bible and as a Christian, which comes from the word Christ, this means I follow his steps as the perfect model and continually imitate his example.

Sometimes all it takes some personal research and meditation to find out whether what one is practicing originates with man or God. Sadly many rely on their leaders to tell them what is true or not and just take their word for it.

I have not personally heard of the Army of God but I do know that God will exact his own revenge as brought out in Rom 12:9. So it would seem that certain ones take only what they want to out of the scriptures and fail to compare what the rest of them say on the matter.

[Onan]

If the Bible is without contradiction I ask one of the believers to tell me how Judas died??
Who killed Saul??
How many children did Michal the daughter of Saul have??
Who was Josiah's successor??
Does God ever tempt his children??
Has any man seen God??

No one is going to take a stab at this?

[Moparbyfar]

To Jillian, that's the whole point I'm trying to get across! Yes the entire bible IS of equal importance - 2 Tim 3:16,17 "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired of God and BENEFICIAL for TEACHING, for REPROVING, for SETTING THINGS STRAIGHT, for DISCIPLINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equiped for every good work."

It makes sense if you look right back to the start - where Satan challenged Gods rulership by basically saying "God tells lies and holds back good from his subjects. Humans don't need God ruling over them. They can decide for themselves what is good and bad and they'd be better off under my rule."
Now by putting the rebels to death on the spot, would this have answered Satans challenge or proved that Gods way is right? Remember there would also have been millions of angels watching to see what He would do.
Because God has a perfect sense of justice he knew that only time would tell if Satan would be the better ruler or Himself.
After thousands of years, injustice, poverty, crime and war has only worsened despite the various different forms of human rulership. How do you think man is going so far without God?

So then there comes the time to clean the place up and put it back the way God originally intended it - as a paradise with only righteous people taking care of it.

It is up to us to decide whether we want to accept God as our ruler or reject him... BUT ultimately it is His son who as judge, will decide who 'makes the cut' deserving to be in that paradise. (Act 17:31)
So I strive to do Gods will not my own in order to be one of them. (Matt 6:9,10)

Fact or fiction?? ;)

By the way I'd love to know exactly which scriptures people use to justify homosexual actions.? I hear many people try to defend this too, but fail to give evidence from the bible.

[Moparbyfar]

No one is going to take a stab at this??

STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB... STAB!


Lol, couldn't resist sorry.:D

[NeedKarma]

By the way I'd love to know exactly which scriptures people use to justify homosexual actions. ?? I hear many people try to defend this too, but fail to give evidence from the bible.

Who has ever done that? Most people don't need scripture to justify their actions.

[Onan]

After thousands of years, injustice, poverty, crime and war has only worsened despite the various different forms of human rulership. How do you think man is going so far without God?

None of these things have gotten worse. Populations have grown, but all of these things have been a problem from the beginning.

[talaniman]

To Jillian, that's the whole point I'm trying to get across! Yes the entire bible IS of equal importance - 2 Tim 3:16,17 "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired of God and BENEFICIAL for TEACHING, for REPROVING, for SETTING THINGS STRAIGHT, for DISCIPLINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equiped for every good work."

And has been censored to weed out what doesn't fit. I can only conclude that those writings were not inspired by God.

[talaniman]

How do you think man is going so far without God?

Man has a choice, and God lets you chose.

[jillianleab]

Moparbyfar, I'm not sure of the exact parts where people have used scripture to justify homosexuality, but I found a few links with more info for you. If I remember correctly it has something to do with the supposed homosexual acts between several people in the bible; you can see this link for more information: SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS IN THE BIBLE: CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL VIEWPOINTS. There is also conflict about the definition of terms used: Meanings of the New Testament words "Pornea" & "Akatharsia". There's a bunch of info on that site (on a variety of topics), if you are interested to read more.

But to move on - if all parts of the bible are of equal importance, why are some parts left out? Why did man get to decide what people see when they read the bible, if god inspired it all? If I understand you correctly, you are saying all parts should be there and should have been there from the start, but others do not seem to be of the same opinion...

Army of God is an organization who advocates violence to promote their anti-abortion agenda. I'd link their site, but it's very graphic and I'd hate for someone to get in trouble at work for clicking on it. You can type their name into Google and find more information about them. I don't care what your views on abortion are - it is never okay to kidnap, murder, threaten, or bomb a place or individual who disagrees with you. I use them as an example because they justify their action with the bible - they think they are doing god's work, as does every other Christian (or other religious person) in the world. The point I'm trying to make is, they act based on their interpretations, you act based on yours, another acts on his, yet you all have different values. How do you know you're interpretation is right? You don't.

[Fr_Chuck]

First no the bible was not censored, since there was no "bible" only various letters from the Apostles that various churches had, these were hand copied and carried or stored, In fact if caught with them, the early Christians would have been put to death.

The early church called a meeting of all of the major church leaders who presented various letters and writings. We can compare those to writings found in the dead sea scrolls to know that there has not been change in these writings. Many of the writings that did not agree with the main writings of the known Apostles were not included of course,

Were there other letters by other apostles that never survived, yes of course they were destroyed by the Romans, not copied or lost over time by 100's of reasons.

and Christians, by the most part will accept that all inspired writings are beneficial for teachings, but not all writings are of equal importance,
Things wrote by Billy Graham may well be inspired but is it of the same importance as the writings of Peter or Paul, one has to compare that writings to the message.

And often it is obviuus when writings are not of God, those that try to warp the word of God to teach things that are against the word of God isone. Just as in the reference to various sins, did some people in the bible comment terrible sins, murders, rapes and more, yes we see that all men are sinners, but the over all message is repentance of that sin, turning away from the sin and living a new life for God.

So all sinners in today's world are called to God,