[Alpac]

Thank you, you folks have helped me and it was nice to go to the permit office and see they agree with my plan. Nothing like having a plan and feeling like you are driving.

Ok, Question. Does my diagram for rough-in LR tub with a WM drain/AAV valve consistent with good practice?

My diagram shows a 2x2x1.5 Tee for the tub. The tub Tee is below a 2x2x2 WM Tee.
The WM Tee has a dedicated AAV.

Where does the AAV go? And now I wonder, will the inspection require a rough-in for the AAV? (or require another permit to add the AAV). I am hoping to just stub off the 1.5 inside the wall).

[ballengerb1]

I am not an expert on rough ins but I know a few guys who will be here shortly and they can help you more. The AAV is not sealed inside a wall, it may eventually fail and need service/replacement.

[Alpac]

I am not an expert on rough ins but I know a few guys who will be here shortly and they can help you more. The AAV is not sealed inside a wall, it may eventually fail and need service/replacement.

The AAV will be serviced through a box insert to the wall.

New problem: This part of the wall is on 12 inch studs. There is no room to run a trap inside the wall.

I suppose I can trap and vent in the crawl space which is spacious enough with plenty of ventilation and servicable area. Is that a possibility here assuming it has clear area?

[massplumber2008]

Hi Alpac:

I am running off to install a water heater right now.. I will be back in around 8:00 or so... and will answer this then... unless Speedball or another rough in guy wants to, of course.. ;)

Answer this for now...

In your pic... A is not labeled (I think I know it is 24" right? )

In your pic... you show...to: tub trap and sink drain (is there sink on this line as well as tub?? ).

Is the tub pipe cut in at 12" off finish floor height?? Is tub being raised off the floor that much?? If so..why?

Also, you said...trap will not fit inside wall between 12" studs.. It can if you carve up one stud to accept the trap at midline or so... but it will work. You should not put trap below floor... will explain more if you want.. let me know.

What is an LR tub..

Anyway, answer all this.. I'm off to emergency! Talk later... Mark

.

[speedball1]

Well first off you'll have to get permission to use AAV's. I'm not too comfortable with your lay out. 1) I'd like to know the length and elevation of the washer stand pipe. 2) The laundry sink should take off from a 2" San Tee and reduce down to 1 1/2" at the trap raiser with a 2 X 1 1/2" reducing gasket on the compression nut. 3) You have the washer discharging over the sink. Any kind of a partial blockage and it comes up in the sink. If you install the washer trap as close to the floor as possible and use the stand pipe for surge it would be much better. 4) If you're allowed to use a AAV you will only need the one on the washer. The lower fixture will be vented by washer AAV.
To cap this off, I wouls hold the washer trap close to the floor with a 36" stand pipe and stub out for the laundry sink at 15" to the center of a 2 X 2 San Tee. ( That's figuring a laundry sink that mounts 34" off the floor.) Good luck, Tom

[Alpac]

Since I have 12-inch separation among the studs, I am looking for a solution...

City permits AAV provided that horz distance is 5 ft or less from trap &
Installed per manufacturer (6 inches above trap) &
WM inlet is 18-30 inches above trap... [my take-away from direct discussion - I paid $15 for AAV]

Speedball1 - I'll make the standpipe what-ever length is required and practical.

Massplumber says trap and vent under floor in crawl is bad idea.

Rough-in for sink is 2nd priority. Most important to me is usability and proper function (that is why I am here). If I must trap outside the wall and in LR, then it is under a sink... make sense - and I'd opt for 2 inch as you know that is required.

So, what are my options without a sink? Carve out stud (I didn't say this is external and I'd hate to mess with that - but it is an option. I guess I could add a stud to the other side. My city will really charge up a storm though... I really want to do it right and they make it practically impossible.. .

Here I am, no vent, no trap on my existing line and the code requirements make it practical impossible to fix. Frustrating - I think I need a variance and a good argument to persuade...

[massplumber2008]

Hey alpac:

I see Tom is working with you... I am sure he will post a follow up answer. I will pop in if I think I can contribute anything. Take care... Mark

[speedball1]

Alpac,
Since we're getting into this why not take some pictures and upload them to me. What's with the studs. When they got in my way out in new construction I just wacked them off and headed them off. I(s this a bearing wall? Regards Tom PS. I don't believe you'll have to place a trap under the floor.

[Alpac]

From last post, I supplied a picture. The copper is rough-in. The drain above the floor is fitted and not glued. Should I amend the drain? See description.

After planning for 16 inch I opened the wall. I was surprised I found studs every 11.5 inches. And near the window three studs. I don't know why. The wall is external and maybe a window nearby was a late add-on. You may recall there is no trap or vent on the washing line. Perhaps this laundry room was completed in a hurry some 33 years ago.

During the week, I drilled and pass 2-inch fitting through a 6 inch concrete foundation wall. (I found a notch that obviated a concrete bash session). The 2 inch on the left comes up from the crawl space.

I was concerned about UPC about trap distance over floors. What distance does the UPC call for traps over floor? (I understood it at 12 - this one is 14).

My stand-pipe is 24. I wish it were longer. Is there any value to time to lower the trap?

Looking at the picture provided, you'll notice the turn in the trap to horz. Is that a show-stopper, not much I will do about it unless I get flooded. I wonder if that will happen?

You see a studor mini-vent. As I mentioned, it is not glued. I plan to raise it over the washer inlet level (opinion?). I am debating to vent and service it from the outside as its rated for either. (opinion). Yes its permitted and inspector suggested installation instructions.

My appreciation for your helpful opinion and suggestions. I've learned that plumbing when applied in the field is an 'art'.

[speedball1]

My stand-pipe is 24. I wish it were longer. Is there any value to time to lower the trap?

That extra 12 inches would make a big difference in backups, however if you don't wish the hassle of cutting the stack and lowering the trap you could connect the washer hose to the stand pipe by jamming rags around the hose in the pipe and securing it with duct tape. That would make it a closed system and would not allow a backup.

Looking at the picture provided, you'll notice the turn in the trap to horz. Is that a show-stopper, not much I will do about it unless I get flooded. I wonder if that will happen?

the trap will be fine and your worries about a flood will be over if you decide to make this a closed system.

I was concerned about UPC about trap distance over floors. What distance does the UPC call for traps over floor? (I understood it at 12 - this one is 14).

I think you're confusing the trap to vent distance If 12" inches were the limit all the kitchen and lavatory traps set at 18" would be red tagged.

You see a studor mini-vent. As I mentioned, it is not glued. I plan to raise it over the washer inlet level

Yes, I would raise it 6 inches over the washers rim.

I am debating to vent and service it from the outside as its rated for either.

If you run the vent outside you wouldn't need a AAV. There are restrictions and do's and don'ts to this so if you decide to run it outside let me know. You will have to get the inspectors permission to do a outside wall vent if that's what you're planing. Good luck, Tom

[iamgrowler]

I was concerned about UPC about trap distance over floors. What distance does the UPC call for traps over floor? (I understood it at 12 - this one is 14).

UPC calls for no less than six inches above the floor from the bottom of the trap.

My stand-pipe is 24. I wish it were longer. Is there any value to time to lower the trap?

Well, if you lower the drain tee six inches, you will also be lowering the trap.

The UPC calls for a minimum of 18 inches and a maximum of 36 inches on a laundry standpipe, so you are well within the codes guidelines -- Personally, I would glue it up as is.

If this is Redmond, the inspector is going to expect this to be under test when he arrives.

Glue in a Clean-Out Tee just before the point where you tied the drain in and pick up a Cherne test tee plug at Fergusons -- Then run the vent up as high as possible and fill the drain piping with water before calling for inspection -- You can cut the vent down and install the AAV after it has passed inspection.

[speedball1]

UPC calls for no less than six inches above the floor from the bottom of the trap.

That's interesting! What would be the reason for that rule? Here in SPC land we place our washer traps as close to the floor as the tee will allow so as to make our standpipes 36". Never had a complaint, either from the homeowner or the inspector. Regards, Tom

[iamgrowler]

That's interesting! What would be the reason for that rule? Here in SPC land we place our washer traps as close to the floor as the tee will allow so as to make our standpipes 36". Never had a complaint, either from the homeowner or the inspector. Regards, Tom

It's a throwback to the days when Durham Cast-Iron fittings were still in use.

Reasons vary, but the most common explanation is that even slight alkalinity in the soil could and will rot out the fittings in as little as five years.

Then again, it depends on who you talk to and how long they've been Plumbing.

>shrugs<

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this day and age, but it's still in the code book, so it's still enforceable -- Given my past experiences with Redmond Inspectors, variances and waivers are seldom given out in the field, so if you plan to deviate from the adopted code, then you had better have approval for any variances and waivers beforehand.