[ScottGem]

and if you are playing around enough for someone to get off and you claim to be a virgin then its false advertising.

That would depend on context. As I recall, I suggested the OP could say that while he has been intimate with previous partners he remains a virgin. That's NOT false advertising.

[smoothy]

That would depend on context. As I recall, I suggested the OP could say that while he has been intimate with previous partners he remains a virgin. That's NOT false advertising.

True, if both people kept their pants on and their hands out of the others pants then yes... as long as neither were playing around with the others genitalia. I will accept the fact simple mouth to mouth kissing isn't in itself a sexual act even if certain select people might get more of a reaction than the average person.

But like I contend... if one party was getting blow jobs or anal sex... or giving either depending on their gender then they would not be virgins and it would be false advertizing.


Sort of like the Honor Role student that gets caught cheating on exams...

[Synnen]

This is going in circles again.

I would contend that someone with the experience you describe is not PURE, but still a VIRGIN.

The words are NOT exactly the same.

[smoothy]

This is going in circles again.

I would contend that someone with the experience you describe is not PURE, but still a VIRGIN.

The words are NOT exactly the same.

Refer back a few pages to the definition of virgin, then also to the definition of Coitus.

Those are pretty clear by definition. Sexually experienced virgin IS an oxymoron.

[Synnen]

So is a sophomore :P

That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Seriously--you're nitpicking. I still liken it to someone who has finished ALL of their credits for a degree--and hasn't taken the final test. Until they take that final test to graduate, they don't have a degree, no matter HOW much they know on the subject.

[Allheart]

Synnen is right... round and round we go :):)

The GREAT thing about all of this is that Confused25 is an incredible young man and just wanted to be honest and I don't think he concerns himself so much with what label he should call himself or at least I hope he doesn't.

He hasn't popped into much to see Auntie Allheart :(, but I am hoping he's off being the wonderful young man that I feel him to be. :)

[smoothy]

Unless you live in a country with traditional arranged marriages there really is no stigma to not being a virgin.

If you have any form of sex then you are not a virgin, and if you claim to be then you are a liar as well.

What wrong with being honest or has telling lies become that ingrained with so many people they no longer see the problem with doing it. A relationship based on a lie is like a house built on a poor foundation... it just will never be as strong as one based on truth, or a house built on a proper strong foundation.

[ScottGem]

If you have any form of sex then you are not a virgin, and if you claim to be then you are a liar as well.

Now this is getting beyond ridiculous. I agree with you about honesty and I agree that the stigma of losing one's virginity has waned greatly in the last few decades. However, you are so off base in calling people a liar that its shameful. Just because you have a different view of how virginity should be defined then the vast majority of the rest of the world, does not give you the right to make false accusations.

If someone has not experienced penile penetration of the vagina and they want to call themselves a virgin, then they have that right. End of story. Any further arguments against that will be removed.

[Allheart]

Smoothy -

I want to make it perfectly clear - that this young man asked is he or isn't he a virign. He was unsure, he did not know that is why he asked the question to ensure to tell the truth.

I just wanted to make that perfectly clear. So you are more debating on the definition of virgin, not necessarily anything that has to do specifically with this young man.

Who by the way, is a wonderful young man. Don't believe I have mentioned that :):), but he truly is.

Okay, carry on. I got that off my chest.

[Fr_Chuck]

I have read the "report" of the post as done by smoothy, and while we could over in religion or a discussion forum discuss the way society has taken lightly varoius forms of sexual experiences. But basically if there I no penile penetration then by all standards that I am aware of in today's society.

Scotts is correct and not expressing a opinion, he is stating basic commonly accepted facts. You may not agree with this, and should be OK to express as long as it is not in a hurtful way your idea of what a virgin is.