[Jonstar]

I'm installing a bathroom in my basement and had a couple questions:

First though, it's a basement install where the sewer comes in half way up the wall. I plan on using an ejection unit that will be separately vented to an no longer used pipe going out the roof.

I plan on hooking in a washing machine, sink, shower & toilet. The plan is to have a 2" line run in the wall from the washing machine to the sink then drop into the floor and connect with the shower. This will all tie in after the toilet to a 3"-4" line that will drop into the ejection unit. Since I have no way of effectively running a vent to the system in the basement, I was going to put a Studor vent above the washing machine.

My questions are:

1) will the Studor vent be enough to vent everything to the ejection tank? Of course the washing machine, sink and shower will all have traps installed. If this won't work, what would be suggested?

2) Is it OK that my vent pipe from the ejection tank goes up to the attic then has two 90s on it so I can connect it to the old pipe? Does it need a straight run instead?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've included a rough sketch of the plan.

Thanks! :)

[Jonstar]

Bump.

Thoughts?

[massplumber2008]

In Mass... studor vents are not allowed unless approved by local authority... they are never approved.. so I may not be a huge help.. but let me share my thoughts anyway.

I laid this out and here is what I would do:


Run 4 inch straight out into a 4" wye...on branch of 4" wye pickup toilet... on run of pipe reduce to 3" pipe via a 4"x3" reducing bushing. AT toilet I would want a 4" x 2" wye fitting to roll above center line of the waste pipe and I would connect a 2" individual vent and pipe it to just behind the toilet and then continue a 4" elbow out of ground for the toilet (wrap foam/cardboard around toilet pipe as it comes out of dirt 5 inch diameter so when you pour concrete floor you can pull out later and add closet flange more easily).

On the 3" run of the pipe I would install 3"x2"wye to pick up washing machine by itself and then I would reduce the 3" run of the pipe to 2" via a 3"x2" bushing in the 3"x2" wye used for the washing machine. On the now 2" run of the pipe I would run straight to shower and install 2" wye for a wet vent directly over to the lavatory just prior to the 2" trap for the shower. The shower trap ends the run....the 2" wye rolls above center line and comes out of the ground with a 2" long sweep fitting (can be 45 and street 45) and a cleanout (called a test tee or dandy cleanout) just above floor if accessible from other side of bathroom). The wet vent runs up to the lavatory (stub out 1.5 inch) and continues up 2" to kind of act as a vent stack... you will see in a minute.

Then in the same trench you ran directly to the lavatory with the toilet wet vent you should run the 2" pipe for the washing machine (at 3" pipe for the washing machine (at 3" wye previously mentioned). If you pipe this right it will be in front of the toilet wet vent and will allow you to come out of the ground (2" long sweep again) and pick up washing machine without crossing drain pipes with the lavatory.

Then pick up washing machine with a 2" wye previously mentioned). If you pipe this right it will be in front of the toilet wet vent and will allow you to come out of the ground (2" vent back to lavatory wet vent (vent stack I said would make sense earlier) at least 48 inches off finished floor and then run the 2" tee fitting..run 1.5" vent up to attic and tie into vent stack in attic.

Also note... that washing machine trap could be 1.5 inch but I notice most seem to push for 2" vent stack over toward toilet vent...connect them together in ceiling and run this 2" and 36" (I like washing machine box in wall... add 30-36 inch piece out of box into p-trap which then pipes into tee fitting say 18 inches horizontal that will then continue vent up and tie over to lavatory vent as mentioned).

Hope this made sense... JUST THOUGHT I WOULD *BUMP* YOU BACK... ;) Let me know what you think... and hang on as I am sure some of the guys where studor vents are allowed may have different ideas... I can't wait. Just wanted to get ball rolling!


Let me know if I helped by rating the answer below. Thank you!

[massplumber2008]

Just remember to give a few of the other plumbers a chance... they have some good ideas once in awhile... ;) Keep in touch!

[speedball1]

1) will the Studor vent be enough to vent everything to the ejection tank? Of course the washing machine, sink and shower will all have traps installed. If this won't work, what would be suggested?

No! The way you show would have a vented fixture discharging past unvented ones and that's a no-no. EVERY FIXTURE that has a trap MUST have a vent. Check your local codes for a Studor Vent. I would suggest installing your group like this.
Toilet connects to ejector pit. Lavatory connects to toilet drain and runs a vent off the top the stubout tee out the roof,( or Studor Vent,) or revents back into a dry vent in the attic. . The toilet wet vents through the lavatory vent and the shower connects to the lavatory drain and is wet vented by it. The vent off the lavatory may be run out the roof or revented back into a dry vent in the attic or if you're reventing back into a fixtures dry vent you must make your connection at least 6 inches over that fixtures flood rim. This is a normal rough in and is acceptable both by local and state codes and also The Standard Plumbing Code Book in 90 percent of the country. Check your local codes.to make sure you're not in the excluded 10 percent. This way, if local codes allow, you can use just one AAV off the lavatory.

2) Is it OK that my vent pipe from the ejection tank goes up to the attic then has two 90s on it so I can connect it to the old pipe? Does it need a straight run instead?

A vent pipe can have as many twists and turns as you wish. Just make sure it slopes back to the fixture that it's venting.
Good luck, Tom

[Jonstar]

Thanks for the replies... I'm having some fun figuring this in my head though.

Unfortunately I am in a situation that will not allow me to vent to the roof or even dry vent to the attic. I am flexible on code although I do want to keep as close as possible... that being said, bending the rules is an option as long as it work ;-)

I understand how I should bring the lavatory drain into the toilet line and off that lavatory line will be the shower. But there was also the washing machine that has to be tied into this all and I wasn't sure where it should come in... could it come in like the shower on the lavatory line?

Once again, if I run the lines properly, will a Studor vent on the lavatory be enough to vent this whole mess?

I'm a graphical thinker and are pretty green on this so if anyone had a second to sketch out what they would do, it would help enormously!

I appreciate the help!

[massplumber2008]

Jonstar.. I am confident you can get a vent up to attic... through a closet... or if you have to, open a wall and patch. Reread my post and speedball1's... That is the only answer I can offer you at this point. Good luck!

[Jonstar]

Ok... I've tried to take a bit from massplumber and speedball on this one... I've come up with the drawing below.

What the drawing doesn't show is how I will run up from the floor to the washer AND the lavatory to 'tees' and then tie together and vent on the roof.

So is it OK that I have tied the washer AND shower into the lavatory line as I have?

I've basically run 4" off the ejector unit to a 4" tee. Off the tee is the toilet, then it continues to a 3" run then down to a 2" run and from there the shower connects using a 2" 'Y' then it goes to another 'Y' that runs to the lavatory and to the washer. These each will have clean outs where they break the floor along with running vents off the top of these runs.

I'm curious if this will allow the toilet to wet vent from both the wash and the lavatory. Or will it still not be enough and I should vent the toilet off the 4" run to it (as massplumber suggested)?

Thanks for all the help guys, I hope I'm on the right track!

[massplumber2008]

Looks like you are getting there jon.. but I have to stop there because in Mass. We do not pipe bathrooms like this... so hoping speedball1 can take it from here. Good luck!

[Jonstar]

Thanks for all your help massplumber...

Any advice speedball?

Thanks!

[Jonstar]

I've drawn up a new layout according to massplumber's first response. I think I got it right and I see how it would work... (plan02.jpg - bottom image)

That being said, I've revised the plan a little further to not have to break up as much floor... (plan03.jpg - top image)

Everything is similar to masspumber's idea but I've removed the 2 lines in the floor (to lav and washer) I've now got one line that runs to the shower that is 3" to handle more flow. That wet-vents to the lav which vents into a vent pipe off a tee. The washer ties into the lav's 2" drain but is also vented independently off it's own tee. The lav and washer will each have P-traps that hook into the 2" drain. The vents will then all tie in together (including the toilet vent) and will then be vented to the roof via an old vent I can run it to.

I've also included a drawing of how the one plan (plan03.jpg) would look if looking from behind the shower, lav & washer.

Does this sound ok? will the shower wet-vent ok? Do I really need the vent on the toilet or would it be ok to wet-vent it to the lave since the majority of the run is now 3"?

Once again, any opinons and thoughts are welcome! :)

[massplumber2008]

Jonstar.. I would stick with the bottom image EXCEPT I would tie that washing machine drain in just behind the wye for the shower drain vent line via a 3x2 wye with the branch of wye off to washing machine and then reduce run to pick up shower vent and shower drain as you have drawn. So here, you are removing parallel washing machine drain line and increasing 2" to 3"... until you pick up shower and washing machine... then you are back to parallel lines, buit all is good by code and by volume and vent! That should do it... AND sorry.. I think you still need that vent for toilet. Hope this does it for you.

BUT again... wait till speedball1 sees it... or better yet, PM him by left clicking on his name.

[Jonstar]

I've laid it out as you said (or at least I think I have)...

So basically you would have 3" going all the way to the washer?

I would also bring the 3" out of the floor in the same spot as the 2" and run it through the walls so I don't have to break up as much floor... instead of the 45s you see at the top of the shower I would install a cleanout on each at the floor level then 90 it sligtly up the wall.

Sound good?

[massplumber2008]

Damn close... now just reduce that 3 inch pipe to washer... just want the three inch to go to the wye fitting that picks up the washer... then reduce washer to 2"...

[Jonstar]

Thanks for all the help!

I'm now deciding what I should run this in. Would ABS be OK? I'm going to be cementing over it when done and I just want to make sure it will take the pressure, etc. If I run ABS it will solve the problem of having to join PVC to ABS up the wall later on...

Do most do it this way or do they run PVC and use special glue to tie it into the ABS?

- Jon

[massplumber2008]

I want you to check with your local inspector on this one Jonstar... I am big fan of PVC.. less brittle than ABS... PVC cuts smoother, too. BUT check with local code requirements. I am glad if I was able to help.. Was fun working through with you. Good luck!

[Jonstar]

Here is the finished sketch...

You'll see that I've added a floor drain off the washer line. It will just be a 2" floor drain (not sure if that is code but it's not the main one) so I can drain my water softener into this system. I'm having it installed shortly and have no drain nearby to have it dump into.

This should be my last question! :D

Will the drain be all right as long as there is a P-trap on it? Or will I see suds backing up through the drain when my washer runs and worse yet, get an odor from time to time? The water softener should keep the trap full because of how often it will run...

Thanks again for all the help massplumber... I've got a few things to finish up in my basement then I start breaking concrete! I'm looking forward to it!

I'll try to post some pictures of the install since I know it helped me when I was able to see others work in progress.

- Jon

[speedball1]

Any advice speedball?
This should be my last question!
Will the drain be all right as long as there is a P-trap on it? Or will I see suds backing up through the drain when my washer runs and worse yet, get an odor from time to time? The water softener should keep the trap full because of how often it will run

I can see a problem with the floor drain tied in to the washer drain line. I would connect to the lavatory drain instead. Not so much volume and velocity draining past the floor drain. I like the cleanouts for the washer and lavatory that will also service the shower. In my area,and under my code, the toilet will be wet vented by the lavatory but if code calls for a separate vent in yours, by all means, install a toilet vent. Good luck, Tom

[massplumber2008]

Jonstar... now what are you up too..? I leave you alone for so many days... and BOOM! You go and add a floor drain! Hey... Speedball's dead on with the floor drain advise... and to check on the local code requirement for toilet in your area.

I am a bit of a stickler on rolling my vents above centerline.. especially wet vents... That is only reason I have you running separate vent for toilet. The way you have it drawn.. I want to see individual vent at toilet... but if could line that 4" drain line straight into toilet (turn ejector unit to get straight shot at toilet) and then roll that 4 x 3 wye fitting going to other fixtures above centerline (via a street 22.5 fitting, for example) then could definetely lose the toilet vent.
I know this is a lot of work... but I think that will finish all for you... FINAL!! Let us know what you do.

[Jonstar]

Thanks for the advice speedball!

And I'm just trying to keep you on your toes, massplumber

As for the toilet vent, I've opted to leave it in there... the way I figure, I'm only doing this once and even though I could wet vent it, I might as well run it... then I'll know the toilet is completely 100% vented.

So below is the final layout... unless I decide to throw another curveball at you guys ;)

Thanks again for all the help.

For anyone reading this post, listen to these guys! They know what they're talking about and are exceptionally helpful.

- Jon