[De Maria]

As a counterpoint to Veritas "Why not Christianity?" I'd like to ask all believers why they believe what they believe? That includes Atheists. Why do you believe what you believe?

[Choux]

I'm a "non-believer" in Gods or the Supernatural, but I have beliefs in how humanity should treat each other and our shared Creation. The main thing that separates me from educated Christians is that I have no "belief" that human beings are immortal.

[De Maria]

I'm a "non-believer" in Gods or the Supernatural, but I have beliefs in how humanity should treat each other and our shared Creation. The main thing that separates me from educated Christians is that I have no "belief" that human beings are immortal.

Could we say then, that you believe that human beings are not immortal? And also that you believe that nothing supernatural exists? And that you believe that there is no God?

[Choux]

Sure

[savedsinner7]

Why do I believe in Jesus? Because He touched my life and made me His. Search my posts and you will find my reasons for what I believe. I believe because He made me to know Him. You cannot come to the Father unless Jesus calls you as His own.

[excon]

Hello again, De Maria:

I'm an atheist. To me, that's a LACK of belief - not a belief in and of itself. You can choose to call me a "believer" in atheism if you wish. I'm not going to argue with you... Ok, yes, I will.

It seems to me, that you "believers" out there can't conceive of anyone who has an absence of belief. So, I don't think the discussion is about belief in God or the lack thereof. It's about your inability to grasp that some people have no belief, don't need any, and are perfectly comfortable with that fact.

When did I realize there wasn't any God? Just a little while after I found out Santa and the tooth fairy weren't real either. Why did I believe that instead of all the stuff I was taught in religious school?? Fortunately, I developed the ability to see through bunk.

When I say fortunately, I mean I'm really, really glad that I'm not under the religious SPELL that MOST of the people in the world are. Indeed, I think the SPELL has caused MORE damage to us than it has fixed.

Anthropologically speaking, I'm sure that a belief in the supernatural was NECESSARY for our ancient ancestors to have evolved. I'm sure that belief, along with learning how to plant seeds, led to our present day.

However, as a species, we've outgrown our NEED for religion. It's holding us back, not propelling us forward.

excon

[Capuchin]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with your initial statement excon, although I certainly agree with everything you say afterwards.

I think atheism is a belief, but the important thing is that it's a belief that does not require faith.

[De Maria]

Hello again, De Maria:

I'm an atheist. To me, that's a LACK of belief - not a belief in and of itself. You can choose to call me a "believer" in atheism if you wish. I'm not gonna argue with you...... Ok, yes, I will.

It seems to me, that you "believers" out there can't conceive of anyone who has an absence of belief. So, I don't think the discussion is about belief in God or the lack thereof. It's about your inability to grasp that some people have no belief, don't need any, and are perfectly comfortable with that fact.

When did I realize there wasn't any God? Just a little while after I found out Santa and the tooth fairy weren't real either. Why did I believe that instead of all the stuff I was taught in religious school????? Fortunately, I developed the ability to see through bunk.

When I say fortunately, I mean I'm really, really glad that I'm not under the religious SPELL that MOST of the people in the world are. Indeed, I think the SPELL has caused MORE damage to us than it has fixed.

Anthropologically speaking, I'm sure that a belief in the supernatural was NECESSARY for our ancient ancestors to have evolved. I'm sure that belief, along with learning how to plant seeds, led to our present day.

However, as a species, we've outgrown our NEED for religion. It's holding us back, not propelling us forward.

excon

Lack of belief? That makes no sense to me. Its as though you are admitting a shortcoming in your ideas. Maybe another can explain.

It seems to me:

That if you say that you "lack" a belief, then you are acknowledging that God exists, but you refuse to acknowledge that belief? You "lack" or "are deprived" of that belief.

Or do you simply mean that you believe that God does not exist?

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Dark_crow]

A belief is deeply held and not subject to whimsmatical change. Opinion is my take on a matter. For instance, it is my belief that I was not created by God. It is my opinion that today's dance styles are for the most part vulgar; men and women look like animals in heat. My belief will not change because times change, the second is subject to all kinds of change.

[Goldenwolf]

I believe what I believe because of faith, and that's enough for me. Ive seen miracles happen, and that helps me believe even more

[Fr_Chuck]

You can tell perhaps a real atheist, which I may beelive excon is, he does not really come out to attack other reliigions, he merely just does not believe they are true.

Compare this to several others who go out for their way to attack and to try and make christians doubt their faith, By judgig a persons action you can see basically that many are not really atheist but more anti religion

[De Maria]

A belief is deeply held and not subject to whimsmatical change. Opinion is my take on a matter. For instance, it is my belief that I was not created by God. It is my opinion that today's dance styles are for the most part vulgar; men and women look like animals in heat. My belief will not change because times change, the second is subject to all kinds of change.

I guess I can see your point. Its like a belief is a highly ingrained opinion. But the point of the question is 'why do you believe what you believe'? Is there a reason why you believe you were not created by God?

Goldenwolf gave a direct answer. Faith is enough for him.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Dark_crow]

I guess I can see your point. Its like a belief is a highly ingrained opinion. But the point of the question is 'why do you believe what you believe'? Is there a reason why you believe you were not created by God?

Goldenwolf gave a direct answer. Faith is enough for him.

Sincerely,

De Maria

First, let me say that to believe on faith alone is not true, whether it is in reference to believers or unbelievers alike. Someone who truly seeks the answer cannot believe because of ignorance. There must be some rational basis, or else the faith is not true. It is the same with people who say they have chosen to believe. As an atheist I have, according to this argument, chosen not to believe. Again, belief is not an act of will; would you as a believer stand before God and say, “I believe because I choose to believe, or that I believe because of faith,” I can't help but wonder what God might think on hearing these two reasons for believing.

I have not chosen to not believe based on faith or choice. To be honest with God, I read the Bible in the light of historical fact, such that it is, where the Bible was written. The Bible was written in a far more superstitious and ignorant time than we can ever imagine. Without science my conclusions about God would be as dishonest and ignorant as the time when the Bible was written.

I'll just quote someone else here… "Beautiful as is the morality of the New Testament, it can hardly be denied that its perfection depends in part on the interpretation which we now put on metaphors and allegories."

The Christian god is unsupported by the Christian scripture. In other words: There is no rational basis to believe in the Christian god.

[De Maria]

First, let me say that to believe on faith alone is not true, whether it is in reference to believers or unbelievers alike. Someone who truly seeks the answer cannot believe because of ignorance. There must be some rational basis, or else the faith is not true. It is the same with people who say they have chosen to believe. As an atheist I have, according to this argument, chosen not to believe. Again, belief is not an act of will; would you as a believer stand before God and say, “I believe because I choose to believe, or that I believe because of faith,” I can’t help but wonder what God might think on hearing there two reasons for believing.

I have not chosen to not believe based on faith or choice. To be honest with God, I read the Bible in the light of historical fact, such that it is, where the Bible was written. The Bible was written in a far more superstitious and ignorant time than we can ever imagine. Without science my conclusions about God would be as dishonest and ignorant as the time when the Bible was written.

I’ll just quote someone else here… "Beautiful as is the morality of the New Testament, it can hardly be denied that its perfection depends in part on the interpretation which we now put on metaphors and allegories."

The Christian god is unsupported by the Christian scripture. In other words: There is no rational basis to believe in the Christian god.

It sounds as though you have read the Scripture but you were not convinced.
Thanks for the explanation.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Goldenwolf]

Dark_crow its true my beleifs are based on faith because faith is: 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen' Hebrews 11:1 As martin luther states here: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/...ther-faith.txt
- - - -
As for MY opinion: I have seen and lived miracles that the graceful God of mine has done for me and the ones who I love. I don't care what dark_crow thinks about, but what I and the other beleivers think about. Just that I hope Martin's letter could help you believe, because I BELEIVE that my mision is to make people believe in God, and thanks to Him because he has helped me with some ex-atheist friends. I love God, and thatz what I care most in the world. I love God for over money and even over my family. Because God will never leave me, he will always be there for me.
As for the bad experienses I have lived, God knows those were for good, because for christians, everything that happens, is for good. And that's it. That is what my Beleifs are based on

[Dark_crow]

Hopes are great things, my very best wish's to you and yours.

[talaniman]

I just believe in the PERSONAL relationship between me and the God I understand, and put nothing between us, not religion, or people, places, or things.

[Wondergirl]

My beleifs are based on the use of logic, reason, and common sense...all abilities available to everyone.

So your logic and reason and common sense--and openmindedness?--won't allow you to read the Bible in its entirety and then look at the whole picture? I see. Anyway, it's more fun to pick out one or two negative-sounding sections and then make a decision about an entire book. I wonder if that works with DeFoe or Hemingway or Steinbeck.

[tiggerella]

I was raised a Catholic and read the Bible end to end to satisfy my curiosity, yet I currently practice the Wiccan religion because I DON'T believe in organized religions. What I found after becoming a member of about every religion on the planet is that the Christians believe in whatever organized religions tell them is in the Bible, but most I know have never read "The Good Book" cover to cover, so they have no clue themselves what it truly says and follow their leaders like senseless sheep... and the same holds true for the "non-Christian" religions as well, since most, like the members of the Taliban, follow the teachings of someone who has twisted the basis of their beliefs to his or her own interpretation.

I chose the Wiccan life because Wiccan beliefs come down to one simple statement: "If harm ye none, do what ye will". There is no set law about what God or Goddess you choose to worship as long as you don't hurt anyone else while you are doing so. I can choose to live by the Ten Commandments and The Golden Rule and still practice my solitary prayers without someone telling me that I'm doing it wrong - and there are no laws about my female self being less important than my male counterparts. No one has messed with me since I've taken up this religion because I don't try to push my beliefs on anyone else - and you should see the Jehovah's Witnesses zip out of my driveway when I tell them "I'm not interested in your magazine. I'm a Witch!" (I don't explain that "witch" refers to a female Wiccan practitioner... lol)

[Wondergirl]

most I know have never read "The Good Book" cover to cover, so they have no clue themselves what it truly says and follow their leaders like senseless sheep........

Ah. And what did you conclude about Christianity when you read it cover to cover?