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this8384 · Sep 26, 2007, 07:56 AM

Here in Wisconsin, I was awarded a judgment in June '07. The debtor is making a beyond minimal attempt to pay me. I've offered a payment plan of only $50/month which I know for a fact is in their budget, but they won't accept it.

I do know they own a vehicle which is both in their name and completely paid off. I've asked numerous attorneys about filing a writ of execution. One said personal property is exempt up to $6,000 and told me the car would be off-limits because it's worth less than that; another attorney told me the car is exempt only up to $1,200 and I can absolutely have the car seized as it's worth more than that; yet another attorney told me there are too many loop-holes as to what the debtor can claim and what assets they can claim in place of their home if they don't own any real estate.

I don't know what to do. I know that if the car can be seized, then those costs also get added to the judgment amount but I can't afford to pay for a writ of execution just to find out that I can't pick up the car and then have lost that money as well. Any expert legal advice?

ScottGem · Sep 26, 2007, 08:33 AM

Wage Garnishments -- Bankruptcy Property Exemptions -- State Statutes -- Wisconsin

This site supports the $1200 exclusion.

But I wouldn't bother with trying to seize personal property. The hassles are just not worth it. You would be better off with a wage garnishment or bank account attachment.

this8384 · Oct 3, 2007, 08:26 AM

I know a garnishment or attachment would be easier; however, the debtor claims to have neither a job or a bank account. That's why I asked about the seizure of property.

Would I necessarily have to have an attorney file the writ of execution? I found a form on the circuit court website for the seizure of property which looks simple enough to complete.

Another question I have: A company who is owed money by this same debtor also filed a lien of $200 on the same vehicle. How does this affect my seizure of the property, if indeed it goes that far?

ScottGem · Oct 3, 2007, 08:51 AM

You can file your own form, but liens for unsecured debt generally take precedence in order of service. So the other company's lien would have precedence.

this8384 · Oct 3, 2007, 09:44 AM

I just found out that their lien is only for small claims fees, etc. So the lien isn't for "debt", per se, but attorney's fees and stuff. Their debt has technically been paid, so would their lien still take precedence?

ScottGem · Oct 3, 2007, 10:04 AM

Doesn't matter. The only lien that would take precendence is if the car was put up for collateral. Any other liens are by filing date.

this8384 · Oct 8, 2007, 01:01 PM

The car wasn't used as collateral; the company was awarded the money back in '03 and the car wasn't obtained until '07. I just happened to notice on the circuit court website that they had her car listed under the "Property/Remarks" section.

So theoretically speaking:
Let's say I had the car seized and then sold it; I understand that I would have to return any money I received for the vehicle that is more than what she owes me(i.e.: if she owes me $800 and I sold the car for $900, I would have to give her $100 back). Would I add the $200 that is owed to the other company to what she owes me and then pay the company back out of the money that I received for the car?

I hate to do it, but I'm really starting to think that this is my only option to get paid. They just keep dragging this out and my bill that I initially sued them for is getting higher and higher because there's interest on it and I can't pay it off.

One more thing: I spoke to another lawyer who told me that I can't seize property over a small claims case. Any truth to that?

ScottGem · Oct 8, 2007, 04:40 PM

Its unusual, you would have to obtain an order from the court to allow the seizure.

this8384 · Oct 9, 2007, 02:00 PM

How would I obtain a court order for the seizure?
My concern is that if I go through the motion of getting an order from the court to allow the seizure, that will only alert the party of what I'm going to do. If they know it's coming, they'll just hide the car. Then I'm out not only my judgment amount but now I have the filing of the execution and the cost of the papers being served as well.

excon · Oct 9, 2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by this8384

So where is the law stating he can't order her to work?

Hello this:

If a judge can order anything he wants, why don't you ask your judge to order him to give you his car?

excon

this8384 · Oct 9, 2007, 02:36 PM

Let's keep the comments pertinent to the question, please. Don't bring our disagreement over someone else's legal situation into mine.

As I posted earlier:
How would I obtain a court order for the seizure?
My concern is that if I go through the motion of getting an order from the court to allow the seizure, that will only alert the party of what I'm going to do. If they know it's coming, they'll just hide the car. Then I'm out not only my judgment amount but now I have the filing of the execution and the cost of the papers being served as well.

excon · Oct 10, 2007, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by this8384

Don't bring our disagreement over someone else's legal situation into mine.

Hello again, this:

We don't have a disagreement. What we have is the law. The law doesn't care about you and me. It just IS.

I say again, if a judge can order a defendant to do anything he wants, why are you having so much trouble??

These questions are not asked in isolation. If the LAW applies in one case, it applies in another. It doesn't mean one thing for question #A and another for question #B.

excon

this8384 · Oct 10, 2007, 03:57 PM

You can't apply one law to all cases. Referring to your comment about life in the slammer for smoking a joint: certain judgments and orders are appropriate for certain cases and completely ridiculous for another. While there should be some form of punishment, that punishment does not fit the crime.

I will again repeat what I stated earlier: you don't have all the facts. You don't know how long this woman has had this debt, you don't know what agreements she has broken, you don't know how many times she has been to court over this one incident. The bottom line is that neither you nor I know. I don't feel the judge was out of line; you feel he was. That's it. Now please stop posting about an unrelated matter in my question. If you would like to continue nit-picking, do it in the applicable post.

I will again repost my question for the 3rd time hoping that someone will have an answer that applies to what I am asking here, and not a separate issue:
How would I obtain a court order for the seizure?
My concern is that if I go through the motion of getting an order from the court to allow the seizure, that will only alert the party of what I'm going to do. If they know it's coming, they'll just hide the car. Then I'm out not only my judgment amount but now I have the filing of the execution and the cost of the papers being served as well.

excon · Oct 10, 2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by this8384

You can't apply one law to all cases..... If you would like to continue nit-picking, do it in the applicable post.

Hello again, this:

Couple of things. The law is INDEED about nit picking, and I think this IS the appropriate post. You disagree.

Second thing. If a case is on point, you CAN apply the law. As a matter of fact, established case law is how cases ARE decided.

Your case and the other posters case is ON POINT. You are both judgment creditors. You are both dealing with judgment debtors. You say in her case, that the judge can do anything he wants. You say in your case, he can't.

Your argument that he can is based on who the defendant is. Isn't the defendant in your case worthy of the same examination? I'm sure he's no better than she is.

Actually, WHO they are and the circumstances that led to the judgment are totally irrelevant. The only fact that matters in the law IS the judgment. You and that lady are equal in that you both have a judgment, and I presume you are both equally entitled to get your money. So, I ask you again why the judge in your case can't order your defendant to give you his car?

The final point is that you're not going to engage my argument and then dismiss me. That ain't going to happen.

excon

ScottGem · Oct 11, 2007, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by this8384

How would I obtain a court order for the seizure?
My concern is that if I go through the motion of getting an order from the court to allow the seizure, that will only alert the party of what I'm going to do. If they know it's coming, they'll just hide the car. Then I'm out not only my judgment amount but now I have the filing of the execution and the cost of the papers being served as well.

The ONLY way is to take the judgement to the court with the details of the vehicle (make, model, color, license plate, VIN (if you have it), etc.) to the court and apply for the writ. Such writs are not immediately published, so its unlikely he would find out about it until he's served.

JudyKayTee · Oct 16, 2007, 05:37 AM

I'm not in Wisconsin and obviously am not familiar with Wisconsin laws concerning seizure of property to settle a debt - that being said: in NYS the paperwork involved in levying against property of any sort in order to settle a debt is so confusing, so tied up in laws and loopholes, pretty much requires an Attorney in order to make sure that everything is in order that it simply is not worth it. I have seen a levy brought before a Judge who launched into a lecture about the debtor being left without a vehicle, what if someone has a medical emergency and there is no vehicle, how can the debtor find employment without a vehicle (like the debtor was even looking for work!) until the creditor went slinking away. Not all Judges are sympathetic and then you are out additional time and money - and if no two Attorneys are telling you the same thing then there is a grey area. Just asking - you have received several legal opinions. Are you actually paying for these opinions, are these phone conversations, casual conversations in grocery stores (or whatever?) That can make a difference - find one Attorney, pay for the advice and take it. Not saying you are Attorney shopping but if you are it will only confuse you. Free advice and paid advice (unfortunately) may not be the same!

this8384 · Oct 16, 2007, 05:52 AM

I've called a few different lawyers and just gotten advice over the phone. Like I said, I'm getting conflicting answers. It's so frustrating because my situation got laid out like this:

Debtor trashed the apartment
Apartment unrentable; had the carpeting replaced even though I didn't have the money for it
I sued debtor for the carpeting bill
I received partial judgment
Debtor isn't paying on judgment
Carpeting bill is accumulating interest

I feel so terrible because I can't pay this bill but I literally had no option but to accrue the debt in the first place. That's why I'm wondering what my options are; I can't continue to put these people off but I have no money to give to them.

JudyKayTee · Oct 16, 2007, 08:23 AM

Just my opinion but free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it - if you are serious about this go in to see an Attorney and go from there. As far as the bill for the carpeting - hope I don't sound harsh but that is your debt; the carpet people did not install it based on your being able to collect from a third party. It's your debt.

Again - stop calling Attorneys and actually make an appointment to see one. Until then you really don't know where you stand.

this8384 · Oct 16, 2007, 08:45 AM

No, I understand and acknowledge completely that it's my debt. What really aggravates me is the carpeting bill accrues 18% annually; I only get 12% annually from the court. So I'm losing out on this whole situation when I didn't do anything wrong in the first place, you know what I mean?

The one lawyer that's in my area who I would have file the execution also happens to be the one who told me that personal property is exempt up to $6,000. However, that's where I find the conflict because motor vehicles are exempt only up to $1,200 and the vehicle is worth more than that.
Additionally, since I don't have money to pay off my carpeting bill, I don't know where I'm going to come up with the money to sit down with a lawyer and get this filed. That's why I asked about filing the execution myself, because the form looked easy enough but like you said, there are so many loopholes.

I guess I'm just going to have to try and save some money up to get a definite answer. Thanks for all of your help :)

JudyKayTee · Oct 16, 2007, 09:53 AM

Have you tried your local Bar Association, asked for a referral? They usually have a list of Attorneys who specialize and will sit down with you and discuss a case (or potential case/matter) for an extremely reasonable fee, disclosed in advance of the appointment, sometimes as little as $35. Here in NYS they give advice, know their stuff and make no money at all on the visit. It's sort of good public relations and if you ever need an Attorney, hopefully you will call them. Sometimes they are younger but this is a collections matter and I don't think an Attorney would need a lot of experience to know the law. Just a thought -

And I hear you about the interest you have to pay and the interest you can collect -