[biggsie]

I have been trying to answer wiring problems and not sure I agree with a previous
Posting where someone was told to twist 2 bare wired and twist 2 white (guess they
Wirenut them) and that leaves two black wires to go to the light??

*** THE REAL PROBLEM ***

LIGHT HAS CONSTANT POWER __ NEUTRAL IS SWITCHED __ BAD

Think there is a better way *** make sure POWER is off *** then start at switch

Bare wire to Green screw --- white wire to silver screw --- black wire to gold screw

Install switch in box and cover it -- Turn switch to on position and grab a meter

To wire properly check for continuity at ceiling, black and white pair (switch)

1. Only one pair should show continuity -- the black goes to gold screw of light

2. The other pair should be the power --- the white goes to the silver screw of light

This should leave a black from the power wires and the white from the switch

Wire nut these 2 wires -- That leaves the bare ground wires

I would use needle nose to loop and wires and ground separately to fixture

Any electricians in the crowd -- please respond

[ballengerb1]

A lot depends on where the white and black wires at the switch really come from and go to. The switch should have a black/hot wire coming in and another black leaving the switch going to the base of the fixture. The white leaves to fixture and leads back to the circuit. The greens were correct. You never want a hot at the fixture with the switch off.

[tkrussell]

Not really sure what the question is, but a few comments:

Plain switches never have silver screws, only those that have built in pilot lights.

Never switch a neutral. Neutrals are always white, but white wires are not always neutrals. A white wire may be used to feed a switch, nowadays must be labeled hot, older installations will not be labeled hot.

If only a 2 wire is at a switch, the feed should be the white, and the black will be the switched leg back to the light.

At the light, the feed neutral will connect directly to the light, the feed black will connect to the white going to the switch leaving the black from the switch to connect to the black of the light.

Not sure if this helps. Let me know if not.

[biggsie]

Not really sure what the question is, but a few comments:

Plain switches never have silver screws, only those that have built in pilot lights.

Never switch a neutral. Neutrals are always white, but white wires are not always neutrals. A white wire may be used to feed a switch, nowadays must be labeled hot, older installations will not be labeled hot.

If only a 2 wire is at a switch, the feed should be the white, and the black will be the switched leg back to the light.

At the light, the feed neutral will connect directly to the light, the feed black will connect to the white going to the switch leaving the black from the switch to connect to the black of the light.

Not sure if this helps. let me know if not.

The light should have a (neutral) white wire to threaded wall where light screws into...

The (hot) black wire should come from switch to center post of fixture

To make this happen a black (hot) and white to switch are wire nutted

Just didn't think connecting white wires was correct , worked out on paper

Doing that puts HOT wire at the light and switches the neutral -- wrong

[tkrussell]

Can you direct me to the post with the incorrect info?

Thanks.

[biggsie]

Yesterday, 09:51 AM #3 Report Inappropriate Post
labman
Dogs Expert


https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electr...ghlight=switch


Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern US
Posts: 7,956

Connect all the whites together. Connect all the greens or bare wire together, to any metal boxes or housings, and to the green screw on the switch. The blacks go to screws on the switch. The push in terminals are less reliable than the screws.

OLD SCHOOL??

[donf]

Please wait a minute and let's everyone understand what is in the overhead junction box.

First, I am not a licensed electrician by any stretch of my imagination. So any references to code I make should be highly suspect and I will defer to any electrician's corrections. Also, please be careful when working with live or hot wires. Always open the breaker for the wires you are working on.

Do you own a voltmeter? If you do, then let's start to wring out your wires. First, lets find the power source. I expect that when you removed the lamp base and got a look inside the wall there were two pairs of black and white wires along with two bare copper wires. The bare wires are ground and should only connect to each other and the grounding screw either on the lamp or inside the box on the grounding screw.

Place one of the meter probes on a bare copper wire. Place the other probe on one of the black wires in the ceiling. Do you see the meter needle deflect (move)? If it did, then most likely this is the power source line. On the second black if there is no needle deflection, then it is most probable that this black goes down to the switch.

If you have only one black/white/ground, then I believe you are already in a code violation. I do not believe you are allowed to use the wall switch as a source of power because there is no Return (white) wire. Switches only connect to Load (source). Normally, you will find that the black wire from the Power Supply is connected to the Black wire on the switch. The paired white wire is marked (black wire tape) on both ends to signify that it is no longer a return line, it is a load carrying line. The new white/black wire connects to the switch and then to the black wire on the fixture. The white wire from the Source cable and the white wire from the fixture are connected. The bare wires are connected and attached to the grounding screw inside the box.

Now the wires are supplying VAC to the overhead cable, the source is connected to the switch by another black wire. The black/white wire connects the out of the switch to the black on the fixture. The white out of the fixture connects to the white on the source.

Now the circuit loop is in place. The electricity will flow through the to the lamp and return via the white wire to the source and off to ground.

I hope this helps and I will defer to TK Russel if he has corrections

[labman]

I think these 2 threads are a good example of why some others should follow my example and leave questions they can't give a good answer to for those that can. When I started at AMHD, there were many forums in the house and garden area where nobody was giving good answers. We had Speedball1 in plumbing, but not many others of his equal. I was doing what I could, but steering clear of technical code issues.

As good people including tkrussell joined, I posted less and less. I still keep an eye on things, but only jump in where I know there is a problem with an answer.

i want to wire a switch from the switch to the light. there is a 12/2 wire from the breaker to the switch. how do i wire this to the switch and then wire the light which has a 14/2 running from the switch box to the light box. the wires are run, but not connected each has a green, black and white with the exception of the light, which has only black and white. thank you!

This looked to me like a clear case of a switch fed directly from the breaker and power going on to the light with no switch loop. If I understood ballengerb1's answer, he said the same thing I did. Except for the issue of the #12 and #14 wire, I would have left the thread alone as I do many. If the #12 comes off a 20 amp breaker, running any #14 in the circuit is a problem I thought should be called to the attention of the OP. Yes it is possible the #12 comes from a 15 amp breaker. After all, most of my 20 amp breakers connect to #10.

Since ballengerb1's answer wasn't clear to me, I explained it differently.

I am greatly troubled by many posting in plumbing, heating, and electrical like they were practicing in them and giving obviously wrong answers. I wonder if they are trained and certified in any of them? I don't claim to be, but I do recognize basics like not using #14 where fed by a 20 amp breaker. As long as a question is unanswered, the OP knows they aren't good to go. Once they receive a poor answer, they may follow it before anybody corrects it. So unless you really know what you are doing, leave questions for somebody that does.

[biggsie]

OK now I know what the problem is if power comes in the switch box and ties to
Switch then feeds on to the light , the black is split at the switch (3 wires at light)

The way I interperated it is that power fed to the light , and the switch wire was
Run from the light to a different wall , they were wired at light (6 wires at light)

Sorry for misunderstanding , not on same page :(

You the man!! I didn't want to have a bad posting, like this site

[tkrussell]

Sometimes just a little patience pays off.

Good post and conversation, gentlemen.

[donf]

Labman, As I said previously, I am not an electrician but that said I reread my posting and I'm not sure if you are referring to me. In general, you want to limit the amounts of times you tie a black wire to a white wire with black tape on it.

So in reading an earlier post; If there is a B/W pair in the ceiling going to the breaker (I believe that is the proper way to bring power to a fixture.) Next if there is a second B/W pair to the switch and finally a B/W pair on the fixture.

With the circuit breaker OFF, connect the Black from the Breaker to the Black from the switch. Connect the White (with a black band of tape on it) to the Black on the fixture. You now have power at the light fixture with the switch turned on. You must now complete the return path. The white from the Fixture is connected to the White from the Breaker. Green wires are connected together, bare wires are twisted together. Green and Bare can be twisted together. What you cannot do is Attach any white or black wire to the ground wires.

If you have three or four wires that are ground wires, please be aware that only one wire can go under the ground screw. Therefore, you make a "Pigtail" connection that ties all of the grounds together + one jumper wire, wire nut them. Take the other end of the bare jumper and connect it to the ground mounting screw.

If the wire from the breaker goes directly to the wall switch. Then you might well have a code violation which would force you to have a wire pulled from the panel box into the overhead junction box.

To find out exactly what you need to do, you can call a licensed electrician or call an electrical inspector and tell him you are a novice and want to know if a wire directly from the panel box can connect to a wall switch.

Personally I would call an electrical firm and tell them your dilemma.

Don

[labman]

Donf, I suggest you go back and carefully read the entire thread, including the other thread referenced. You and Biggsie have both gone off on wiring a switch loop. I saw nothing in the original question to indicate it was a switch loop.

Nobody should ever post any answers without carefully reading the question first. Then they should take care to post a correct answer. Most of the home and garden forums have highly competent people answering questions. Although I can provide good answers to many of the questions, I leave the unanswered ones hoping they are answered by those that know more than me, rather than less.

[donf]

With your permission, I would like to take this discussion off-line of the forum.

I still don't understand your response. I'm making a general statement about wiring and troubleshooting. If I mis-read the content of this issue I apologize but what you are saying to me is that I should stay away from answering unanswered questions because I'm not a recognized "Expert"? Or am I misunderstanding that?

Any way, if you would not mind, helping me flatten this out, I will be most appreciative.

[labman]

I am sorry, but I think it is quite important to settle the issue of whether you can tie #14 into a circuit fed by a 20 amp breaker in public. It is my understanding that regardless of the load, all the wiring in a circuit must be rated for the amperage of the breaker or more.

[tkrussell]

Since it seems the wiring issue has been resolved, and I will confirm that a 20 amp circuit does need all #12 wire thruout the entire circuit, I will call this conversation complete, and I have closed the post.