[Spark80]

I know the implications of breeding and am conscientious of the large overpopulation of animals in the US, I am well aware of the costs of dog breeding as my parents bred Shar-pei's for years. I can safely say that all the pups from my dog's first litter have homes already and they are great home's, mainly friends and family. My wife and I are not doing this for profit or any sort of gain, we love both our dog's, they are healthy registered AKC Sibe Huskies, both with incredible temperments, strong people skills, caring natures, and excellent physical attributes as well as health, according to our vet.

Now that that is out of the way, I'll say this much, I still am hesitant to bring more puppies into the ever-increasing population already present. But I would also like to have a puppy and have family members that have owned and lost Sibe's that will care for the pups they take very well. Sorry if it appears I'm putting up the defensive early, and I know it's hypocritical to some extent to say I agree with a lot of the forums comments on breeding and overpopulation yet I'm still inclined to breed my dogs. I apologize as best I can for how this may sit with some people.

Here are my questions:
1. My female is 13 months old, she started her 2nd heat cycle last week (Friday) and my wife and I had to go out of town, the dogs were separated and looked after. Now it's been 5 days and there doesn't seem to be any discharge... this is not typical of her last heat cycle so I'm at a loss. I do not want her to be pregnant, and I don't see how she could be, but since we were gone for a couple of days I'm relying on the information from our petsitter that they remained separated. Does an absence of discharge point to pregnancy?

2. My wife and I were going to wait until her 3rd heat cycle to breed her, which would put her around 25 months. We were planning on spaying her after her first litter. To avoid future litters. But I was afraid if she got pregnant this early, at 13 months it could be a very bad situation. Now there is a high probability in my mind that she is not, but I'm preparing for all possible scenarios. If we find out she is pregnant, can spaying her early in the pregnancy act as an abortion and is it safe?

I believe that is all I can think of currently, any responses would be well appreciated and thank you to anyone who took the time to read this very long post :)

[RubyPitbull]

Spark, you are the first breeder that has shown up on this forum that knows all the right things to say. LOL. The fact that you know the homes the pups are going to and that you are limiting the litters says a lot about you as a breeder. Responsibility is very important in breeding and it appears that you are doing all the responsible things. As long as you don't show up here in a panic with a problem that a seasoned and responsible breeder would know how to handle, I don't have any bones (okay I did that on purpose) to pick with you. LOL.

Let's see if I can manage to allay your concerns. First, if she is over one year old, it isn't as grave a concern if she is pregnant, than if she were under one year. Yes, it would be better if she was older but it isn't the worst thing that could happen. Secondly, many vets can safely abort a pregnancy and spay them at the same time without ill effects to the dog. Many vets do just that with rescues.

I won't attempt to answer your question about the abstinence of discharge and whether your dog is pregnant or not. I think it would be a wise first step to take her to your vet for an exam, and find out if she is actually pregnant. Speak to him about all of your concerns. If she isn't pregnant, well then, there is nothing to be concerned about. If she is, then you have a decision to make. You can choose to abort the pregnancy early on and stick to your original plan to breed her at a later time and spay her after the pups are weaned. Or, you can have her spayed at the time of the abortion.

I hope you found this helpful.

[labman]

What your are describing sounds just like a huge problem the dog guide school, that I volunteer for, has. All their breeding stock, including the males, lives in somebody's home as a pet. A female comes in heat. Her host family leaves her at the kennel to be bred. Her cycle ends in a couple of days when left with strangers. Yours doesn't sound like she made it far enough into her cycle to be fertile. The discharge is reduced by then, but continues even if bred. I suspect in a week or 2, she will be discharging again. I hope you know to expect creative, strenuous efforts on both her part, and any males for miles down wind to get together. Somebody here recently defended letting their female accidentally get bred by saying the dog jumped a 10' fence. Oh, some neutered males will mate with a female possibly causing damage or infections.

The reason I am so hostile to breeding questions here is that anybody that ever read even a general dog book would know the answer to most of them, and certainly anybody that has made the start you have would. I don't see how those needing to ask very basic questions should be keeping an intact dog, let alone be breeding it. A couple quick questions on AHMD won't replace intensive study. Quite often such questions are so short, it give me plenty of room to assume the worst.

I am very happy you plan to wait until she is older, and are concerned about problems from an early accidental breeding. I would suggest in the mean time, you do some serious study. The best info you may get here is my suggestion to buy and read Successful Dog Breeding, by Chris Walkowicz, DMV. I haven't read it and don't know enough about breeding to tell if it is any good. It is on the suggested reading list the dog guide school gives those raising puppies for them. They have been breeding 300-400 puppies a year for a long time, and likely know a good book when they find one. I also ask that your read Just One Litter There is some other good material on that site. Anything you read on the net needs to be filtered against its source. Woodhaven Labs is a professional breeder. As such, they will be very good at seeing the dangers of amateur breeders. Just as at least one guy on the plumbing forum discourages DIY work.

This is my Zeke, his mother, and their half sister when they spent Thanksgiving with him.

[Spark80]

That raises very interesting question and all of a sudden concerns me about the quality of my veterinary care. I was told long ago, by my vet(clarification: by one of the tech's at my vet's office), that dogs could not be given procedural abortions...

But if what you say is correct, there is the possibility of an abortion without spaying and I can plan a litter when I originally wanted to?

Thank you Labman for your excellent recommendations in literature, I will be sure to check into those.

[RubyPitbull]

Sparks, most vets will just do a complete abortion/spay. It is a lot easier and is by far, the safest method, although no surgery is 100% guaranteed safe. I think you need to have a discussion with your vet as to what he is willing to do and have him explain the dangers of aborting without spaying. Any surgery, whether performed upon humans or any other animal leaves a window for errors.

[Spark80]

Here's a picture of our kiddo's.

That's Maddux(aka: Mad Dog) on the left and Kayla Girl on the right.

This is a pretty old photo, New Year's Eve 06/07



Yeah they rule our bed, we spoil them rotten, but they know it's not for sleeping, just a place to play :P

[RubyPitbull]

They are very beautiful dogs. I still wouldn't purchase a puppy from you (LOL), but they are beautiful. (Don't take it personally-- I wouldn't purchase a puppy from anyone, never have, never will). :)

[bushg]

We are rehabbing a house and those dogs look exactly like the ones that live beside it. Is the black one a male and the red female? These dogs rarley bark. I thought they would bark at strangers being so close to their property line. Is this a huskey trait, Not barking much?

[RubyPitbull]

Spark, are you bush's neighbor?

No bush, not barking isn't a trait of huskies. I have met some very vocal ones. You have neighbors who did a very good job of training their dogs not to bark.

[bushg]

Just wondering, lol I would probably slip them birth control:D But they are good looking animals.

[RubyPitbull]

Well, if pigeons are now being slipped the pill,. hmmm :rolleyes:

[Spark80]

Well.. I think the house next to us is having remodeling done, and if you have a Border Collie then you may very well be my neighbor, lol. But Huskies have a tendency, in my experience, to have striking similarities among them. And yes, the black/white is a male and the red/white is a female.

Our dog's don't bark much, Kayla does on occasion, but generally when they are happy or excited, or a siren goes off from an emergency vehicle they howl. I'm not a big fan of noisy dogs and barking drives me mad, so we have been very consistent in stymieing barking when it occurs unnecessarily, but our dogs have and continue to be alert barkers when they suspect trouble and have on more than one occasion alerted us to possible dangers, as they see it. :)

[bushg]

Yes but it was the red dogs markings on her face that looked so much like the other. Also, I have never seen many reds ones, to compare. By the way I have 2 ankle biters and the house is empty we are just rehabbing to sell it. Lol your dogs are safe from my birth control:D good luck

[labman]

I have always heard that it is best to let a dog pregnancy go to term, but RubyPitbull may have more recent first hand experience. When all else fails, go with what the vet that will be doing it thinks is best. I highly doubt she is pregnant. There is no sure way to tell until about a month after the breeding. My Labs have plagued me with false pregnancies.

I once fostered a stray for a couple of months that could have been a Husky. He was a beautiful, calm, quiet, gentle creature with eye spots. I named him London thinking my brother wouldn't appreciate me naming him Jack.

Oh, my Lab Aster always warns me when a cat walks across the yard, somebody walks a dog on the road, or the guys with the big, noisy truck are stealing the bag of goodies again I was dumb enough to leave out there easy to grab.

[RubyPitbull]

I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The safest and smartest thing if she is pregnant and Sparks is planning to have at least one litter, would be just to allow her to have the pups and spay her after they are weaned. I definitely didn't intend it to sound as if aborting the litter and leaving her intact to have a litter at a later time, is the norm or an easy procedure, for that matter. It most definitely is not. There aren't too many vets willing to do this. The standard practice when a vet aborts a litter is to spay at the same time.

[Spark80]

Appreciate all the responses, she started discharging again yesterday, Labman seems to have nailed it on the head, distress from our absence must have caused a halt in the discharge, things are going well now, and she's got a vet appointment next week so we'll see how things are progressing. Once again appreciate all the feedback, I'll keep you guys up to speed :)

[RubyPitbull]

Labman usually nails it. Besides his knowledge of training issues, he most definitely has more knowledge about breeding than anyone I have encountered here on this forum. Distress from your absence makes a lot of sense.