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Harddrive · May 24, 2007, 08:47 AM

I want to add a GFCI breaker to an existing sub panel (used to power a hot tub) so I can have a protected outlet on my patio. However, I'm confused as to how to wire in to the existing wiring.

The existing sub panel has a double pole 50A breaker with 2 hot wires (red and black) and a neutral white wire plus a green ground. At the sub panel, the white wire and ground are ganged onto the same bus. I traced the wires going to the sub panel and verified the white is connected to the main house neutral, while the black and red come from another 50A 2-pole breaker on the main panel.

My confusion lies with the white neutral being connected to ground at the sub panel. I thought that GFCI breakers require the neutral and ground to be separate. If so, how can I add a GFCI to this sub panel?

Thanks,

HDD

tkrussell · May 24, 2007, 08:58 AM

At any subpanel, the neutral is to be insulated and isolated from the equipment ground, which is connected directly to the metal can of the panel box.

The issue is anything beyond the main disconnect requires the neutral and equipment ground to be separated, not just GFI breakers.

This really needs to be addressed and corrected.

The neutral from the load or outlet connects to the neutral lug on the GFI breaker, The white pigtail neutral from the GFI breaker connects to the neutral bar in the panel.

Harddrive · May 24, 2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by tkrussell

At any subpanel, the neutral is to be insulated and isolated from the equipment ground, which is connected directly to the metal can of the panel box.

The issue is anything beyond the main disconnect requires the neutral and equipment ground to be separated, not just GFI breakers.

This really needs to be addressed and corrected.

The neutral from the load or outlet connects to the neutral lug on the GFI breaker, The white pigtail neutral from the GFI breaker connects to the neutral bar in the panel.

So I take it the wiring in this sub panel is not done to code? I just want to make sure before I contact the company that did the work.

Thanks,

HDD

Harddrive · May 24, 2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by bhayne

In Canada, there is a provision in the code that treats a separate building as a separate service even though it is fed from an existing service. In that case, the subpanel will have its neutral and ground tied together.

Well, this is in the US (Colorado). Also, the sub panel is on the same building as the main, just on the opposite side. I believe the code requires the panel and breaker be within a close distance (5-10 feet) of the hot tub it services.

Maybe I should start a separate thread to ask if sub panels can have their neutral tied to their ground?

tkrussell · May 24, 2007, 12:36 PM

While the subpanel and/or breaker does not need to be near the tub, a disconnecting switch must be "readily accessible and with in site" of the tub.

Many times the GFI breaker is in a small subpanel, and is installed no closer than 5 feet of the tub , and acts as the disconnect also. Keeps the installation simpler, and saves buying an additional piece of equipment.