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tomder55 · May 12, 2024, 04:52 AM

The 4th Circus court's decision in Kadel v. Folwell is a dozy . By 8-6 vote they decided that transformers have a constitutional right to gender -affirming (aka mutilation) surgery and health plans are compelled to cover it.

“[W]e hold that the coverage exclusions facially discriminate on the basis of sex and gender identity, and are not substantially related to an important government interest,”

TransHealthPlanRuling - DocumentCloud

In dissent

There is a big difference between, say, reading a statute and discovering a novel unenumerated constitutional right,”

Appeals Court splits, 8-6, in rejecting NC health plan’s transgender coverage rules (carolinajournal.com)

The left continues to distort a constitutional amendment intended to give freed slave rights into a carte -blanche to just about anything. All they needed to do was play verbal gymnastics ( “penumbras, formed by emanations” ) like “equal protection of the laws” ;to justify anything like mass murder and mutilation .

Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson III in dissent said it best .

This is imperial judging at its least defensible, ”What plaintiffs propose is nothing less than to use the Constitution to establish a nationwide mandate that States pay for emerging gender dysphoria treatments.”

Like in Roe ;this is the imperial judiciary playing the role of legislature.

This case of course will end up in SCOTUS hands. Don't that the Dobbs decision overturning Roe will be the deciding precedence.

The Bostock v Clayton County (6-3 with Gorsuch writing the majority ) expanded Title VII protections expanded protections against work discrimination to gays and transformers where none existed before in the statute.

Curlyben · May 12, 2024, 05:51 AM

WTAF !!!
and the USA slips further into the clown state it is

I truely feels sorry for you Tomder, while we may not see eye to eye on everything you have a great grasp on common sense.

Why does SCOTUS believe that they can pass judgement on such rights to a small minority of deluded people, yet refuse to give the same protections to half the population....

jlisenbe · May 12, 2024, 05:55 AM

By 8-6 vote they decided that transformers have a constitutional right to gender -affirming (aka mutilation) surgery and health plans are compelled to cover it.

It's just another way of saying they will force all of the rest of us to pay for these procedures through higher health insurance premiums. Yet another funding mandate for which we have no choice.

jlisenbe · May 12, 2024, 06:03 AM

CB, we're just trying to catch up with the Brits.

Cass' review comes as the NHS continues to expand its children and young people's gender identity services across the country. The NHS has recently opened new children and young people's gender services based in London and the Northwest.
NHS England, the country's universal healthcare system, said the report is expected to guide and shape its use of gender affirming care in children and potentially impact youth patients in England accessing gender-affirming care.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trans-...y?id=109081565

Curlyben · May 12, 2024, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

CB, we're just trying to catch up with the Brits.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trans-...y?id=109081565

True enough, least they have drawn a line on chemical and surgical intervention.
The whole thing is extremely shortsighted.
These people needs serious mental help, but I guess why let that get in the way of profit...

tomder55 · May 12, 2024, 11:33 AM

Why does SCOTUS believe that they can pass judgement on such rights to a small minority of deluded people, yet refuse to give the same protections to half the population....

It would take a thesis sized comment to adequately explain how we got here.
The first nail was SCOTUS' unchallenged ruling declaring itself the final arbiter in Madison v Marbury in 1803 aka "establishing the principle of judicial review ".

But for most of the 19th century into the 20th ;there were monumental bone head decisions in that time ; but basically the court was restrained .

Since Roosevelt's New Deal the court became increasingly activist (the courts should go beyond the applicable law to consider broader societal implications of its decisions.)

They became a black robed ;appointed for life oligarchy of 9 .

There has been push back by justices who believe in original interpretation of the law. But I believe that they feel social pressure from the swamp once they become associate justices . For some, principles give ways to intimidating threats and from the desire to fit in with the DC cocktail crowd . For the ones that don't they become ostracized and smeared by the forces of the left .(Clarence Thomas is perpetually in their cross hairs ) .

tomder55 · Dec 4, 2024, 04:36 AM

SCOTUS has state laws that ban mutilation surgery and the administering of unnecessary irreversible hormone therapy for minors on the docket today.

The case is U.S. v. Skrmetti.
United States v. Skrmetti - SCOTUSblog

Today SCOTUS will hear oral arguments . Bizarrely the plaintiffs argue that mutilation of minors is an equal protection 14th amendment right.

Clueless Joe's team argues that the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th prohibits states from denying the treatments. They say that the Tennessee law in question discriminates by sex .

They say that a child who wants to remain their assigned sex are allowed to have the hormone therapies as needed. But a child who wants to transform sexes are denied "equal protection" .

Of course it is not equal . One needs the therapy . In the case of changing sex ;it is a voluntary procedure that a child or their parents is not competent to determine.
You have to make the argument that preference is the only difference between the sexes to even come close to making this an equal rights discussion.

Wondergirl · Dec 4, 2024, 10:56 AM

No surgery is done on minors. Please talk to a trans person and learn the truth of how the transition process moves along, often over three years or more, with surgery being the, or one of the, final procedures.

tomder55 · Dec 4, 2024, 12:13 PM

Transition surgeries do indeed happen. The administration tried to back away from supporting such surgeries but the transformer lobby pressured them to again support the mutilizing
Biden administration clarifies stance on surgeries for trans minors after backlash | Biden administration | The Guardian

However ;that aside ;I consider the irreversible mutilizations of minors through hormone treatment just as barbaric .

tomder55 · Dec 4, 2024, 03:07 PM

The logic of a appointed for life liberal justice .

"How many minors have to have their bodies irreparably harmed for unproven benefits?"

Sotomayor: "Every medical treatment has risk. Even taking Aspirin."

Supreme Court signals intent to uphold Tennessee ban on trans surgeries for minors, defer to states
(not the Babylon Bee)

jlisenbe · Dec 4, 2024, 07:17 PM

No surgery is done on minors

Glad to see you back WG. You are partly correct as this excerpt shows.

The study found no gender-affirming surgeries performed on TGD youth ages 12 and younger in 2019. This was expected, the researchers said, as current international guidelines do not suggest any medical or surgical intervention for TGD individuals prior to puberty. For teens ages 15 to 17 and adults ages 18 and older, the rate of undergoing gender-affirming surgery with a TGD-related diagnosis was 2.1 per 100,000 and 5.3 per 100,000, respectively. A majority of these surgeries were chest surgeries.

Gender-affirming surgeries rare among trans youth | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

jlisenbe · Dec 4, 2024, 10:07 PM

Pendulum sure seems to be swinging in the other direction now.

"Under the new policy, athletes who are assigned female at birth are eligible to compete on the LPGA Tour, Epson Tour, Ladies European Tour, and in all other elite LPGA competitions. Players assigned male at birth and who have gone through male puberty are not eligible to compete in the aforementioned events.”

LPGA, USGA new policy requires female at birth or pre-puberty change

tomder55 · Dec 5, 2024, 04:18 AM

If SCOTUS says this fad is a legit medical procedure it sets up a scenario where parental consent can be taken away. Don't believe me ? See how many states that have already declared themselves "sanctuary" for transformer care with parental consent . If SCOTUS allows this nationally the next step will be attacks on parental rights ;just as parental consent has been slowly taken away in most states when the procedure or treatment is deemed "reproductive" .

jlisenbe · Dec 5, 2024, 05:30 AM

It's all part of a strategy of which gay marriage was a key element. The idea is to cheapen the concept of "family" so that the government elites can make more of the decisions on what to do with children.

tomder55 · Dec 5, 2024, 05:45 AM

I forgot about this It came up during the campaign . OMG how close we came to having the buffoon Tim Walz a breath away from the Presidency !!!

2023-2024 Regular Session

New law establishes Minnesota as a ‘Trans Refuge’ state

Minnesota as now a “Trans Refuge” state due to a new law that prevents out-of-state laws from interfering in the practice of gender-affirming health care here.

New Laws - Minnesota House Public Information Services - Minnesota House of Representatives

jlisenbe · Dec 5, 2024, 06:34 AM

Selecting Walz was such a poor decision that I think it really hurt KH's chances.

Wondergirl · Dec 5, 2024, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Transition surgeries do indeed happen. The administration tried to back away from supporting such surgeries but the transformer lobby pressured them to again support the mutilizing
Biden administration clarifies stance on surgeries for trans minors after backlash | Biden administration | The Guardian

However ;that aside ;I consider the irreversible mutilizations of minors through hormone treatment just as barbaric .

I'm against surgery for maybe-trans minors. For adults, it's often the FINAL procedure after maybe 3-5 or even more years of counseling, HRT, etc.

Do you wear glasses or contacts?Why? Have you ever had a tonsectomy or appendectomy or other surgery? Why? Have you ever gone to a dentist or medical specialist? Why?

tomder55 · Dec 5, 2024, 10:46 AM

If adults want to mutilate themselves it is fine with me as long as I'm not expected to pay for it or forced to pretend it is normal .

As a woman's rights advocate I don't believe that women should be forced to share a restroom or a locker room with a man pretending to be a woman . I also don't think it is fair to force women to compete in sports with men who pretend to be women.

The issue is with minors getting transformer procedures .

jlisenbe · Dec 5, 2024, 04:19 PM

Do you wear glasses or contacts?Why? Have you ever had a tonsectomy or appendectomy or other surgery? Why? Have you ever gone to a dentist or medical specialist? Why?

All of these refer to widely accepted PHYSICAL afflictions or illnesses which have been around for centuries. The trans issue is completely different. It's an invalid comparison.

Wondergirl · Dec 6, 2024, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

If adults want to mutilate themselves it is fine with me as long as I'm not expected to pay for it or forced to pretend it is normal .

As a woman's rights advocate I don't believe that women should be forced to share a restroom or a locker room with a man pretending to be a woman . I also don't think it is fair to force women to compete in sports with men who pretend to be women.

The issue is with minors getting transformer procedures .

And I responded to that! NO, minors should not have trans surgery. They first should be adults and second have done good research on the process, and definitely get professional family and individual counseling, especially help with dysphoria.

When I was young, I spent a lot of time with my younger brother doing "boy things" -- building a ranch with Lincoln Logs and populating them with plastic cowboys and cowgirls, creating stories about the ranch.

We also had bb guns and did target practice. And so on. He was my best friend. Boys have so much fun, thus I must be one too. That all changed in high school.

Moral of the story is NO trans changes until adulthood when a person begins to realize what gender (via hormones, chromosomes, the brain vs. physical appearance) he/she really is.

It is definitely NOT an invalid comparison, a pretense! Please do honest research. Talk to AND listen to trans adults about their experiences.