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tomder55 · May 16, 2021, 02:52 AM

people left for better wages and conditions elsewhere,

in other words the market set the wage

Athos · May 16, 2021, 03:31 AM

people left for better wages and conditions elsewhere,

Originally Posted by tomder55

in other words the market set the wage

Not exactly - you see we have a long history of labour laws which mandate fair wages and conditions and these cannot be undone at the whim of the employer

tomder55 · May 16, 2021, 04:43 AM

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities . You know why I never hired anyone at minimum wages ? Because no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

jlisenbe · May 16, 2021, 05:30 AM

The primary effect of raising minimum wage rates is to squeeze marginal and inexperienced workers out of jobs. We could raise the minimum wage in the U.S. by 50% and it would not result in increased wages for very many people, but it would continue to make it difficult for teens to get summer and part-time jobs and for inexperienced or poorly qualified adults to get full time employment. I would think the best approach is to encourage people to receive training for jobs that pay well. There are many of those out there. Going to college? Don't major in women's studies. Get a degree in engineering.

Athos · May 16, 2021, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities .

I guess you're Captain Less-Than-Obvious. You got it exactly backwards. Clete cited the laborers and THEN went on to cite minimum wage laws.

no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

Not so. There were more workers than just you - like a few million more. The minimum wage law mandates a minimum wage. Surprised? If it were left to the market the minimum wage would be even lower.

jlisenbe · May 16, 2021, 07:01 AM

If it were left to the market the minimum wage would be even lower.

Actually, the market has moved wages in the other direction. 98% of American workers are paid ABOVE minimum wage. So if there was no minimum wage law, 98% of workers would be completely unaffected, and many of the 2% working at min wage would likely still make their current wage. The effect would be slight.

I guess you're Captain Less-Than-Obvious. You got it exactly backwards. Clete cited the laborers and THEN went on to cite minimum wage laws.

Tom's point was that they were able to leave one job to go to another job which paid more. That's the market at work. Were American employers in Australia exempt from Australian min wage laws? I kind of doubt that, but perhaps it was so.

talaniman · May 16, 2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

thank you captain obvious. Clete cited their minimum wage laws and then went on to say that laborers working for American companies chose to move on to companies that offered better opportunities . You know why I never hired anyone at minimum wages ? Because no one would've come to work at my plant for the minimum wage. That made the law about minimum wage irrelevant. The market set the price of labor.

Employers set the wages not markets and now they scream about lack of employees as they try to reopen. Go ahead, force workers to take those slave level wages with no benefits and let me know how that works out for those so called job creators that are hiring, and hollering. Simple truth is that a year of devastation won't be solved with a few weeks of high hopes and eager pursuit of profits without consideration of those people they want.

That logic doesn't even apply to larger companies just the smaller ones on mainstreet.

jlisenbe · May 16, 2021, 12:19 PM

It applies to all companies. Historically low unemployment rates drive wages up. Simple economics. Best advice for anyone is to become really good at what is in demand.

talaniman · May 16, 2021, 02:02 PM

You must recognize size differences and locations in an assessment of businesses and their options and situations.

paraclete · May 16, 2021, 05:04 PM

yes tal it is called strategic planning but it seems few businesses truly go in for it these days

tomder55 · May 17, 2021, 02:37 AM

The truth is that most businesses ;especially small businesses in the service area ,run on very tight profit margins . That is the strategic factor they deal with . Grocery stores like the ones I mentioned typically are at 2% profit margin.

paraclete · May 17, 2021, 04:45 PM

Yes we know, small business is more lifestyle than earner, but that grocery store you mentioned is over staffed by today's standards but that what comes of having an employ more for less philosophy. Have you heard of German grocer ALDI, at ALDI trolleys are coin accessed, goods don't leave the cartons they come in, the cartons form the shelves, you pack your own at the checkout, if you can find something to pack it in and you bring your own trolley back from the car park. It is an interesting business model

jlisenbe · May 17, 2021, 05:02 PM

At Walmart here you check yourself out, bag your groceries,,and haul it all out to the car.

paraclete · May 17, 2021, 09:29 PM

sounds like a similar approach

talaniman · May 18, 2021, 05:57 AM

Just like many businesses and stores that have not survived the pandemic. Even before covid many businesses failed in the first years anyway, and others are forced to modify the business plan with the onset of expanding online business. It's a never ending cycle of adjustments to outside forces and conditions. The funny thing is to incentivize business, you throw money at them, while incentivizing people you take money from them. Hoarders of wealth are job creators while poor people are lazy.

paraclete · May 18, 2021, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Hoarders of wealth are job creators while poor people are lazy.

I know your sarcasm knows no bounds Tal, but poor people are not lazy when given opportunity and fair wages and those opportunities exist for the hoarders of wealth like Gates, Soros and Buffett to make money by investing in people

jlisenbe · May 18, 2021, 06:26 PM

poor people are not lazy when given opportunity and fair wages

True for some but certainly not for all.

paraclete · May 18, 2021, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

True for some but certainly not for all.

JL your bias and privilege is showing

jlisenbe · May 19, 2021, 04:30 AM

Clete, your ignorance is showing if you really believe that all poor people are looking for a job. It's hard to believe that anyone accepts such a plainly false idea. The more you post here, the more you sadly sound like the typical liberal dem. They love to refer to the ridiculous idea that "privilege" and "bias" somehow negate truth.

tomder55 · May 19, 2021, 05:32 AM

JL your bias and privilege is showing

taken right out of the woke dictionary . It just makes economic sense that if you can get more benefit from getting largess from the government that it is a disincentive to look for work. I don't blame those who take advantage of the government's misguided generosity of other people's money.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. " ( Alexander Fraser Tytler)