[Catsmine]

All you are doing here is supporting the rent seeking system of trade associations charging fees for admission into exclusive clubs. Your Rancher Associations are nothing more than attempts to restrict their trade to members. You see that in many professions that restrict access in this country . These associations of course have a vested interest in the government providing the muscle for the enforcement of their trade rules.

Consider the similarities between Labor Unions and Grange Associations. High membership fees, Regulations governing how and when you work, stifling competition by the use of laws: there are differences, but one has to wonder if the Cattle industry is going to go the way of the Auto industry.

[talaniman]

Unions are formed and officers are voted on to give workers a voice on wages, benefits, rules, policy and procedure. That how you got a vibrant middle class in America, and why it's not so vibrant now.

Thanks conservatives for screwing that up. No surprise you favor credit downgrades and shrinking capital revenues producing shortfalls in your states budgets, and services, after giving rich guys a tax break. You guys can holler about conservative values but can't count.

[tomder55]

Cats .I've made that connection here before in the taxi medallion schemes. Once in the country someone could save until they could purchase a car ...put a taxi sign on the roof ;and be an independent business person. Now that same person needs to become an employee to get a job driving a car,and can almost never hope to advance beyond .

[tomder55]

Unions are formed and officers are voted on to give workers a voice on wages, benefits, rules, policy and procedure. That how you got a vibrant middle class in America, and why it's not so vibrant now.

Thanks conservatives for screwing that up. No surprise you favor credit downgrades and shrinking capital revenues producing shortfalls in your states budgets, and services, after giving rich guys a tax break. You guys can holler about conservative values but can't count.

Unions stifle individual achievement . Suddenly seniority counts more than merit .Overachieving on the job is discouraged .

[talaniman]

Your spin is wasted on a union member Tom. It's a false narrative. No merit based in fact. Just repeating talking points.

[Wondergirl]

In NY, yes. In Illinois, not so much. My husband could keep you up all night with stories about the CWA in NY.

Unions stifle individual achievement . Suddenly seniority counts more than merit .Overachieving on the job is discouraged .

[smoothy]

Despite having been in a Union almost 2/3 of my working life... I'm not going to defend them because I've seen so much of their protecting their friends at the expense of others paying the same dues I really lost any trust in them that I ever had... which wasn't abundent to begin with.

I didn't have a choice... the job was a closed shop... if I wanted it , I had to join. It was a bad time of the year to get a job After fiscal years ended, but before they really had the plans and budgets in place for the next... and I needed a job at that time as previous employer went belly up..

It wasn't all bad though either... they did do a few good things , but really I wouldn't even call it a wash. Certain Unions should not exist..or be allowed to exist. Federal and State and local workers for one.....Police and Emergency workers for another. And Above all Teachers.....shouldn't have a union.

THey did spectacularly well up until roughly 35 years ago until the PC crap started being more important than teaching the important stuff that kids NEED to know in the world.

[tomder55]

Your spin is wasted on a union member Tom. It's a false narrative. No merit based in fact. Just repeating talking points.

you must think I have no experience on this . See WG's comment . What she says about NY is true . I also have experiences in states with right to work rules.

[NeedKarma]

Despite having been in a Union almost 2/3 of my working life... I'm not going to defend them because I've seen so much of their protecting their friends at the expense of others paying the same dues I really lost any trust in them that I ever had

So why didn't you get out??

[smoothy]

So why didn't you get out??

After 20 years... I've earned a rather significant severance package. Like many others... When I get my package... I'm banking it and moving on to the next employer... I've got 4 or 5 lined up right now.

[talaniman]

Your severance package is a negotiated benefit of being in a union, as was mine.

[NeedKarma]

After 20 years... I've earned a rather significant severance package.

Money talks, that's why unions exist. You stayed because it worked for you.

moving on to the next employer... I've got 4 or 5 lined up right now.

I doubt that.

[smoothy]

Your severance package is a negotiated benefit of being in a union, as was mine.

Severance packages are also part of the non-union part of the company as well. Its not just unions that have them. But because they are negotiated... there will be some degree of difference in the amount. Every non-union place I worked at previously had severance packages based on your length of service.

[smoothy]

Money talks, that's why unions exist. You stayed because it worked for you.

I doubt that.

Yeah.. well I Learned decades ago... you do what's best for you... thats what everyone else does.

Doubt all you want... I've got an open offer at three different employers already... and a couple more I've got a really good shot at, good enough to be considered a sure thing.

It helps to have a skill set that not a lot of people have, and significant experience to back it up that is in demand in my area... and it helps to know the right people, I've had a standing offer from one of those employers for the last 5 years. I've known the CEO for the last 17 years. He's said they will create an opening for me if I want it, and when I need it.

That severance package would pay for a rather well equipped brand new Corvette convertible and a few years worth of insurance if I didn't plan on investing it towards retirement. There is a significant finacial encintive to hang around until I have it in hand.

[NeedKarma]

Yeah.. well I Learned decades ago... you do what's best for you... thats what everyone else does.

So why are you always criticizing what other people do?

[smoothy]

So why are you always criticizing what other people do?

Some people go WAYYYYY overboard when they do it. And break existing laws. When Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried get rich over years doing exactly what Martha Stewart went to jail for doing just once (and I'm no fan of hers either)....yeah..lets just say I've got a reason to complain.

[NeedKarma]

When Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried get rich over years

I'll type slowly for you:
THEY ALL DO IT. IT'S NOT ONLY ONE PARTY.

[talaniman]

The Union Advantage: Facts and Figures

How unions help all workers | Economic Policy Institute

Union questions auto execs' pay packages - USATODAY.com

Union Workers Earn More Than Nonunion

Unions, inequality, and faltering middle-class wages | Economic Policy Institute

A major factor driving these trends has been the ongoing erosion of unionization and the declining bargaining power of unions, along with the weakened ability of unions to set norms or labor standards that raise the wages of comparable nonunion workers. This preview of the forthcoming The State of Working America, 12th Editionpresents a detailed analysis of the impact of unionization on wages and benefits and on wage inequality. Key findings include:

• The union wage premium—the percentage-higher wage earned by those covered by a collective bargain­ing contract—is 13.6 percent over­all (17.3 percent for men and 9.1 percent for women).
• Unionized workers are 28.2 percent more likely to be covered by employer-provided health insurance and 53.9 percent more likely to have employer-provided pensions.
• From 1973 to 2011, the share of the workforce represented by unions declined from 26.7 percent to 13.1 percent.
• The decline of unions has affected middle-wage men more than any other group and explains about three-fourths of the expanded wage gap between white- and blue-collar men and over a fifth of the expanded wage gap between high school– and college-edu­cated men from 1978 to 2011.
• An expanded analysis that includes the direct and norm-setting impact of unions shows that deunionization can explain about a third of the entire growth of wage inequality among men and around a fifth of the growth among women from 1973 to 2007.

Facts over fiction and talking points.

[smoothy]

I'll type slowly for you:
THEY ALL DO IT. IT'S NOT ONLY ONE PARTY.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried BOTH were not rich when they got into office... but accumulated wealth far beyond what they earned through insider trading... and they earned almost their entire wealth from it. Nancy Pelosis husbands business depends on being steered insider information and contracts from her.


Its not like they earned it working before they got into office... like a lot of others actually did... They were just the worst offenders, and the most pompous a s s e s of the bunch.

Just more proof they should be held to the same laws adn the same standards everyone else is.

[NeedKarma]