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-   -   Bundy ranch (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=789449)

  • Apr 12, 2014, 05:10 AM
    tomder55
    Bundy ranch
    What is the REAL reason for the Federal Bureau of Land Management(BLM) for sending over 200 armed personnel (some armed with sniper weapons ) ,and helicopters to surround the land that the Bundy family has had grazing rights on since 1870 ? No it has nothing to do with the 'endangered ' desert tortoise (although that is their latest rationale ) . Heck just last year they were willing to exterminate some of the critters.

    Here is a hint. The land in dispute is in Nevada . That means that Sen Harry Reid has got to have his corrupt dirty paws in there somehow. You see , Reid took a junket to China and became enamored with the operations of a Chinese energy company called ENN Energy Holdings and decided it would be a great idea if he could bring this company to Nevada to create a $5 billion solar farm and manufacturing facility . His son Rory Reid is the lawyer representing ENN's interest in this project .
    And where would this project be located ? Yes ,on the very land that Rancher Cliven Bundy (and 50+ other ranchers who have already been evicted ) has used for multiple generations .
    U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant | Reuters


    The tortoise wasn’t of concern when Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore ;and it is not a concern in this case either .If anything ,concern for the tortoise would prevent the construction of a massive solar farm on the site (solar panels have a way of frying critters) . The restrictions for the tortoise were waved for the solar project ;and the land is to be sold to ENN for 1/8 it's market value.
    The head of BLM is Neil Kornze ,who by no coincidence served on Reid's Senate staff until he was appointed to BLM
    Neil Kornze, Principal Deputy Director, Bureau of Land Management

    You will also hear that the reason they are evicting him is that he has not paid his lease fees for years . That is true. It is also true that paying the fees did not protect the other ranchers already evicted . Bundy paid lease fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting anyone ; and then began driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his herd’s head count . Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started increasing his fees to run him off the land and harass him, he ceased paying.

    There is now a standoff . The Feds have already taken down one of Bundy's sons (with dogs) for daring to video them . The other son was tasered. They have taken down cell phone service in the area and has declared the whole area a no-fly zone. They have hired local cowboys to round up Bundy's cattle .

    Local ranchers have gathered in a show of support ,and local militias are converging on the site.
    It could get messy ....another Ruby Ridge ? another Waco ? .

    The problem is that Bundy is not a big Reid donor.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 06:55 AM
    cdad
    What is going on there is just the tip of the iceberg as far as many people are concerned with this governments over reaching into peoples lives and the outright greed. If they werent planning this then why have the bought so much ammo recently beyond what what used in the wars of Afghanastan and Iraq. This administration is looking to push buttons. Its part of what has been going on since the anointed one took office. This nation has never been so divided.

    The desert tortiose has been on many lists to justify the closing and use of lands. They used that same excuse for closing down the baja 500. My fear is that this may have a ripple effect that forces its way through and pushs things over the end and we will lose this country. Their concern isnt for the cattle as they are killing the cattle off by running them till they die. Its very sad.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 07:30 AM
    Catsmine
    Could this be the next step in the tinfoil hat crowd's Martial Law scenario? The one where the 2016 elections don't ever happen?
  • Apr 12, 2014, 07:40 AM
    paraclete
    sounds like a good ole fashioned range war to me, the ranchers verses the new commers and with help from vigilantes and gunslingers they may turn this into a shootin war. I fail to understand the way things work over there, what ever happened to making a fair offer
  • Apr 12, 2014, 08:03 AM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Could this be the next step in the tinfoil hat crowd's Martial Law scenario? The one where the 2016 elections don't ever happen?


    Why is it tinfoil hat theory when it could happen ? You might have said the same if a few weeks back I said a 777 would disappear and nobody would find it. There are things that are happening right in front of our eyes and everyone should be paying attention to those things so it doesnt get out of hand.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 08:07 AM
    talaniman
    That's exactly the argument that land owners and ranchers are making about the building of the keystone pipeline. However I noticed that this has gone through courts and fines are outstanding so as politically charged as the issue is, executing a lawful court order after decades of litigation on FEDERAL lands seems to be a valid next step process.

    19 years later, Cliven Bundy ordered to remove trespass cattle or face seizure by BLM | The Wildlife News

    http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-co...ndy-7-9-13.pdf
  • Apr 12, 2014, 08:22 AM
    tomder55
    putting a pipeline through farmlands that in no way disrupts the farmer's ability to earn a living is much different than the Feds evicting ranchers off Federal lands to accommodate the desires and wealth of the Reid family .
  • Apr 12, 2014, 08:24 AM
    tomder55
    it is comical that the Feds use the 'trespass ' canard when they refusing to enforce laws to prevent millions illegals from marching across Federal lands and private property .
  • Apr 12, 2014, 08:43 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Their concern isnt for the cattle as they are killing the cattle off by running them till they die
    This is true . Many of the cattle have died . No outrage by the animal rights crowd there.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 09:00 AM
    talaniman
    Deportations are at all time highs, so don't deflect the issue, since you always make this about the government while this rancher hasn't paid his fees in decades, and still hasn't since he lost in court, but then you turn around and say its okay for companies to use private lands to make money even if the farmer doesn't want it.

    So he enriches himself on government land for free, FOR 21 YEARS? I would like to not pay fees, and rising cost of those fees for gas and food.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 09:44 AM
    DoulaLC
    Sorry for the brief hijack..........
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Deportations are at all time highs

    I always question the claims that you see in the media... any media source. Numbers are too often skewed, as we all know, to serve the purpose of those reporting them, and the public is not always given the full picture.

    Here's this from a well-known, non-partisan organization: Deportation Numbers Unwrapped | Center for Immigration Studies
  • Apr 12, 2014, 10:22 AM
    tomder55
    Thanks Doulal C .I was about to post the same link. Tal ,you want a private business to be evicted to make room for a major corporation. The tortoise canard has already been debunked since they have waived the rules for other Reid supporters ,and would also waive the rule on the same land that Bundy uses if the solar farm is built there ;as they have done for other solar projects in the state (all it takes is a variance) .
    Bureau of Land Management Solar Plan Guides Energy Development to Lower Conflict Areas, Challenges Remain | Defenders of Wildlife

    I have already addressed the nonsense about him not paying his lease fees. Let me ask you since you insist on comparing this to the Keystone pipeline . Will ANY landowner be forced off their land if the pipeline goes through their property ? NO .

    For years Bundy paid his fees directly to Clark County, Nevada. The BLM imposed themselves on the arrangement claiming that they would help the ranchers in the area manage the land with the fees.They changed the terms without consulting with Bundy and the other ranchers . They then systematically used the fees to force the ranchers off the lands. Bundy is the last holdout . It did not help his neighbors one bit to pay the fees . They were still forced off the lands that their families had worked for generations .

    btw ....my position on Federal lands is as follows .... The Federal Government owns WAY too much land in this country . 84 % of the land mass of Nevada is Federally owned.
  • Apr 12, 2014, 11:08 AM
    Catsmine
    Possibly some hope for a peaceful ending:

    BREAKING NEWS: BLM ends roundup of Bundy cattle - 8 News NOW
  • Apr 12, 2014, 02:24 PM
    paraclete
    what part of breach of contract isn't understood here, the rancher doesn't have a right to graze his cattle if he doesn't pay his fees, on the other issue, owing property doesn't mean you own the air above it or the space beneath it but the idea that if you are a rancher it is all yours has grown up
  • Apr 12, 2014, 02:52 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Possibly some hope for a peaceful ending:

    BREAKING NEWS: BLM ends roundup of Bundy cattle - 8 News NOW

    They are saying they are backing down to seek other methods. If you examine the tactics they were using it is what we here in America have been pointing the finger at in other countries.

    I guess Reid doesnt need this kind of press so close to election time.
  • Apr 13, 2014, 02:10 AM
    tomder55
    Clete ,the Feds were trying to manage his ranch out of business. That is the issue of the dispute. It's the same cr@p they are doing in the Central Valley in California to the farmers there .There was an agreement that Bundy would pay fees as long as the land was irrigated. The government did not irrigate the land so he invested in an irrigation system for the land while ending payments. It was the BLM that reneged because it was their intent to drive ranchers off the land.
  • Apr 13, 2014, 05:14 AM
    tomder55
    btw see chart on page 4 of this ...
    https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42346.pdf

    81% of the land in the State of Nevada is Federally owned. That is an obscenity . The Federal Government owns close to 30% of all the land in the US (mostly in the Western States ) .
  • Apr 13, 2014, 06:02 AM
    speechlesstx
    It certainly isn't about a tortoise, they're perfectly fine with whacking bald Eagles. In fact, if it wasn't mentioned before they said it was too expensive to run a preserve for that very tortoise so they closed it and euthanized the animals. But they can spend a million bucks or so to send in a militia to harass a rancher and steal his cattle.
  • Apr 13, 2014, 06:06 AM
    speechlesstx
    P.S. According to SPLC it's all part of the Koch conspiracy.

    http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/0...deral-faceoff/
  • Apr 13, 2014, 06:22 AM
    talaniman
    You think government is obscene any way, but Bundy in particular has used public lands to enrich himself for decades, but that's NOT obscene? He won't go out of business either, and hasn't, like you say about those ranchers in the heartland and the pipeline from Canada moving oil that most Americans will NEVER use.

    True capitalist. Don't pay lease or rent and make MO'MONEY by cheating TAXPAYERS! We both know for all the stink and hollering he will quietly obey the court order and pay up. Just like Canada will eventually cut a deal that allows them to get their pipeline when they make those ranchers happy.

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