[talaniman]

You guys have been hollering too much spending, and too much regulation, and too much welfare for poor people and too much taxes on job creators for 5 years.

Stop hollering and trickle some of that loot down so we can get out of this low growth no job economic malaise. Austerity hasn't worked anywhere in the world, and it sure won't work here, and you have already almost destroyed the economy and the holidays as it is.

Go explore the Grand Canyon for a few months so we can get some work done and get the ball rolling again. Take Ted and Sarah with you.

[paraclete]

Yes republicans should certainly comtemple the dirty great hole they have dug themselves

[tomder55]

Lol of course the socialists blame one side as they steer the nation over the cliff.

[paraclete]

Do you think someone is actually at the helm over there? Way I see you ,you have got broadside to the current and don't know which way to steer

[gromitt82]

Not being and American, though I've lived there and love the country and its people, I find quite interesting your arguments about socialists, right and left.

With all due respect, let me tell you, as an European that you, Americans, know nothing about right and left wings nor are you familiar with socialism or communism, for what matters

From an European point of view, your Republican party (especially your Tea Party) compares with some of our most radical right wings (French's Le Pin, for instance) whereas
Democrats look rather like our conservative center-right wings (Ms. Merkel, for one).
Socialism, at its worse, can be found right now in France's PM Hollande or in Spain's opposition Socialist party.

One thing is true, though. If some of you plan to plead for austerity programs all you have to do first is to do some market research in Europe and look at our present situation, because of the austerity programs forced upon the meridional european countries (the so called PIGS) by the Germans. Although these programs are affecting practically the entire EU.

However, I would say that the biggest difference between Americans and Europeans, as far as how our respective governments are considered, is that, while here in Europe practically all of us are convinced that our leaders, without exception, are a bunch of compulsive liars that are substantially, basically and almost only interested in keeping their bench seats for as long as possible, you on the contrary, are predisposed beforehand to consider your rulers as great patriots, concerned only by their citizens prosperity.

They claim they are, and most people believe them, line, hook and sinker...

In Europe, they claim that too (how could they say otherwise) but we don't believe a single word of what they say.

Some notable Americans do not mind explaining and condemning the actual truth, such as famous Oliver Stone's series "The Untold History of the United States) or great linguist and philosopher Noam Chomsky, but they are mostly disregarded by the silent majority.

In Europe, on the contrary, some best-sellers are books explaining how we are run by a lot of corrupt inefficient politics.

Not that these books may change or arrange de situation, but at least, we all have the satisfaction of not believing our leaders when they try to turn black into white...

Gromitt82

[paraclete]

Is there a silent a majororty in the US? Seems to me there are some very vocal minorities but as always the majority keeps its counsel until the ballot box. Now these minorities don't like the message they received at the last election. Let me remind them. IT was reduced representation in the house and a reduced vote in the presidential race, great shame it wasn't a wipeout but then a year from now they may receive a just reckoning. When you see a result like that you know a gerrymander is in place because it takes a huge groundswell to remove it

[tomder55]

However, I would say that the biggest difference between Americans and Europeans, as far as how our respective governments are considered, is that, while here in Europe practically all of us are convinced that our leaders, without exception, are a bunch of compulsive liars that are substantially, basically and almost only interested in keeping their bench seats for as long as possible, you on the contrary, are predisposed beforehand to consider your rulers as great patriots, concerned only by their citizens prosperity.

Must be talking about the Democrats . I say term limit the whole group of them and let them go and find real jobs.

One thing is true, though. If some of you plan to plead for austerity programs all you have to do first is to do some market research in Europe and look at our present situation, because of the austerity programs forced upon the meridional european countries (the so called PIGS) by the Germans. Although these programs are affecting practically the entire EU.

Go back to the Peseta... That way your government can devalue the currency and screw creditors like the US government is doing in lieu of default. Or they could default like Iceland did .They reorganised, and now they're back on track. A year or two of pain but they've got their house back in order.

You could go back to being an inexpensive tourist destination and would remove the threat of the Germans dictating terms of your bailout .(they also are probably tired of bailing out states that refuse the do the neessary steps to return to solvency ). Gee austerity must be particularly tough for a country that's used to paying it's people to not work .

[paraclete]

So Tom are you willing to take the Icelandic solution. I think you have entered the region of too big to fail, only because you will take the rest of us with you. This debt you have built up is ridiculous, but how do you deal with it. Short of default and devaluation it will take generations.

The solution you now have of setting a time for review seems more sensible than setting a cap

[tomder55]

Every day the debt increases . Since the debt clock was set up I've never seen a day that it even slowed down. Hard spending choices that Americans are unwilling to make have to be made. Like King Willem-Alexander of Holland said ; the welfare state of the 20th century is gone.

In its place a "participation society" is emerging, in which people must take responsibility for their own future and create their own social and financial safety nets, with less help from the national government

Dutch King Willem-Alexander declares the end of the welfare state - Europe - World - The Independent

[talaniman]

The TParty makes lot of noise and they are scary for sure, but most people are not on their side, and they have no power but plenty of publicity. But fanatics never recognize rejection, or their own impossible demands or positions, they are emboldened by it because they blame everybody else for not following their lead.

Their need for the purest ideology shrinks them greatly, as their real numbers are as great as they say they are but invoking falsely the claims of what America wants is what they want.

There is no evidence of what they claim, but there is the fact that they consume much red meat thrown at them by the flame throwers of a loony fringe and plenty of noise. Conservatives created this hungry zombie, and now its threatening to consume them unless they take action against them.

American just want peace and quiet from the lunatic rantings of a shrinking minority. So please conservatives, just put a muzzle on it. And keep away from the money, its green, not red, and way over your head.

[tomder55]

Lunatic rantings ? Did you read what you just wrote ?

[smearcase]

"However, I would say that the biggest difference between Americans and Europeans, as far as how our respective governments are considered, is that, while here in Europe practically all of us are convinced that our leaders, without exception, are a bunch of compulsive liars that are substantially, basically and almost only interested in keeping their bench seats for as long as possible, you on the contrary, are predisposed beforehand to consider your rulers as great patriots, concerned only by their citizens prosperity."

Don't know where you got that impression. Sure to H wasn't from me!

[talaniman]

Lunatic rantings ? Did you read what you just wrote ?

I thought I was speaking to the right wing that only understand lunatic hollering and rants. Not loud enough huh?

[paraclete]

Shout louder

[tomder55]

Welcome to Weimar America.
By the time the emperor has finished his reign ,he will have accumulated more debt than all the previous Presidents combined. And yet because of QE devaluing of the currency(effectively zero interest rate ) ,we are paying a debt service about the same as we were in 1997 . Normally when the currency is devalued ,inflation follows . But so far it hasn't (although I'm very suspicious over how they calculate that... certainly basic needs like food pricing has not been flat ) .
But that will not last . Eventually the Fed had to tighten the money supply (if for no other reason than to oil the printing presses ) . Let's say that interest rates go back to 1997 levels... say 6.6%... we'd be paying over a trillion dollars a year in debt service (and lets hope interest rates don't go near 1970s levels ) .
And what has all this pump priming accomplished ? As they say in Spain... nada .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

And what has all this pump priming accomplished ? As they say in Spain... nada .

If you didn't believe in stimulating the economy, you would view the recovery as sluggish...

If you DID, you'd view the turnaround from MASSIVE job losses, to 48 consecutive months of job GAINS, a RESULT of priming the pump.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, tom:
If you didn't believe in stimulating the economy, you would view the recovery as sluggish...

If you DID, you'd view the turnaround from MASSIVE job losses, to 48 consecutive months of job GAINS, a RESULT of priming the pump.

excon

You mean jobs were actually added in spite of $800 billion spent trying to reinvent the economy and you know as well as anyone the WH rhetoric was far grander than the results. I have a good memory, it's not as convenient as yours. I remember month after month after month of "disappointing" job numbers and "unexpected" jumps in jobless claims. Meanwhile, federal debts and outlays exploded. Unexpectedly I'm sure.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Meanwhile, federal debts and outlays exploded. Unexpectedly I'm sure.

It's true. The right wing congress should have looked after our money better..

What? You don't think it's them? Don't THEY have the power of the purse? Obama can't spend a nickel without congress appropriating it first.

You knew that, didn't you?

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:
It's true. The right wing congress should have looked after our money better..

What? You don't think it's them? Don't THEY have the power of the purse? Obama can't spend a nickel without congress appropriating it first.

You knew that, didn't you?

excon

There's that convenient memory again, as if we would forget Dems controlled both houses and the WH. The House passed it without a single GOP vote and only 3 RINOS voted for it in the Senate. I know it's difficult for libs to focus on who's to blame for things but this one is all on your side.

[talaniman]

You wingers seem to have kept your jobs and while you are criticizing someone else you have NO accomplishments since you lost the house in 2006. Nada!

No the shutdown was not an accomplishment. That was sabotage and you have been trying that for 5 years and 4 elections. I can also throw in the credit down grade in 2011, but you already know all this. Your screw ups are great, in your own minds but reality is YOU guys are still hollering and have no votes to do a damn thing but obstruct.

So please keep the fake concern for the plight of unfortunate Americans to yourself.