[NeedKarma]

Those people are not Christians but wolves masquarading as Christians.

Ah yes, the No True Scotsman fallacy: No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world doesn't know anything but what the media tells them

Other than the clergy who have admitted their crimes.

[speechlesstx]

That's a bunch of hooey. If you run out of your house to your neighbor, and tell them they will go to hell for sinning, you get cussed out. If you live and let live, you don't get cussed out. .

I have never done that so there must be some other reason for all the sneering at Christians, the effort to ban God from the public square, rewriting history, trying to force the church and Christian businesses to violate their beliefs and a general hostility toward Christians so much so that entire organizations have cropped up over the last couple of decades specifically to defend churches and Christians from the onslaught of attacks. So don't give me that "bunch of hooey" crap.

I mean think about it Tal, you started this discussion because a business owner declined to make a cake for a gay wedding, who then received hate mail and DEATH THREATS. They did not sneer at the couple or tell them they were going to hell, they declined to be a part of something that violates their beliefs for which they are now being persecuted. What happened to live and let live? Were they the only cake makers in the area? Shouldn't they be allowed to refer them to someone willing? Is there no compromise except for the Christian being forced to compromise their values?

Bunch of hooey? Seriously?

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

the effort to ban God from the public square... Is there no compromise except for the Christian being forced to compromise their values?

I'm all for having God in the public square. The question is, WHO'S God? If you want to open it up to ALL the Gods, then I'm cool with that. If you're OK with Muslim assembly's in Middle School, right along side your Christian ones, then I'm cool with that too.

Is THAT what you mean?

No, that ISN'T what you mean. You want YOUR religion in the public square and NO others... I thought you liked the Constitution.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:
I'm all for having God in the public square. The question is, WHO'S God? If you wanna open it up to ALL the Gods, then I'm cool with that. If you're ok with Muslim assembly's in Middle School, right along side your Christian ones, then I'm cool with that too.

Is THAT what you mean??

No, that ISN'T what you mean. You want YOUR religion in the public square and NO others... I thought you liked the Constitution.

excon

You really should stop putting words in my mouth. The constitution uses the term 'religion', not 'Christianity.' We've had this discussion.

[talaniman]

If your religious values allow for the treatment of your fellow human with anything but dignity and respect, then you are full of hooey, and you will probably get the same disrespect back.

[speechlesstx]

If your religious values allow for the treatment of your fellow human with anything but dignity and self respect, then you are full of hooey, and you will probably get the same disrespect back.

A jerk is a jerk, but that's highly irrelevant to my point.

[talaniman]

It is relevant to your point because we all are responsible for our choice of how we relate and balance our behavior with others no matter our religions.

Most would have just sold a cake and been done and moved on but insulting a customer whether intentional or not cannot be qualified by religious beliefs. The law says so very specifically.

[speechlesstx]

It is relevant to your point because we all are responsible for our choice of how we relate and balance our behavior with others no matter our religions.

Most would have just sold a cake and been done and moved on but insulting a customer whether intentional or not cannot be qualified by religious beliefs. The law says so very specifically.

Where is this evidence they insulted anyone?

[speechlesstx]

It's come to this... NY voters and the media are suffering from - "Weiner fatigue."

I have no other comment.

[talaniman]

Where is this evidence they insulted anyone?

If you don't understand the insult of being refused service because of what you are, then you just don't get it. That means you condoned the RACISTS who refused service at the lunch counters too, doesn't it?

But of course if YOU got discriminated against for being CHRISTIAN, you would be insulted, and understand it.

[smoothy]

Ya know sort of like being refused to be served bar-B-Que pork at your local kakob house... or the local Mosque refusing to put up a Christmas tree and celibrate the season with most of the rest of the country.

[talaniman]

No its not. Who goes in a mosque looking for Christmas, or a kokab, looking for BBQ? An idiot that's who!! But looking for a cake in a BAKERY is reasonable isn't it?

[smoothy]

No its not. Who goes in a mosque looking for Christmas, or a kokab, looking for BBQ? An idiot that's who!!!!!! But looking for a cake in a BAKERY is reasonable isn't it?

Same reason a gay couple would expect a non-gay marriage supporting Baker to bake them a wedding cake. THat baker is entitled to his religious beliefs... and that's no different than demanding a Muslim (or Jewish person for that matter) cook you up some roast hog. Just because they have a catering business?

Certainly there are lots of gay friendly if not actual gay bakers out there that would be more than happy to have that business?

[talaniman]

Good luck with your excuses for disrespectful behavior which is against the law in the state of the bakery. Hope the judge listens because I won't.

Glad you think Christian religious belief puts them above the law.

[smoothy]

Good luck with your excuses for disrespectful behavior which is against the law in the state of the bakery. Hope the judge listens because I won't.

Glad you think Christian religious belief puts them above the law.

I think the baker is entitled to respect towards them as well...

Yeah.. thje same reason a Priest can't be FORCED to marry them...

Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone.

Or is this really about them wanting to cause trouble... because there is usually mor ethan one place that makes baked goods in even very small towns.

Why can't... or more like why WON'T they find another baker?



That's the question that nobody has the balls to actually ask.

I personally wouldn't want to eat a bite of anything I had to force someone to make for me.

Trust me... I worked in a Restaurant in College...

[talaniman]

Why can't... or more like why WON'T they find another baker? That's the question that nobody has the balls to actually ask.

Actually they did get another baker, and chose to exercise their right to file a complaint for discrimination, and seek redress in civil court.

I personally wouldn't want to eat a bite of anything I had to force someone to make for me.

Now we agree.

Trust me... I worked in a Restaurant in College...

You really didn't want to piss off the chef back in the day, or now.

[speechlesstx]

If you don't understand the insult of being refused service because of what you are, then you just don't get it. That means you condoned the RACISTS who refused service at the lunch counters too, doesn't it?

But of course if YOU got discriminated against for being CHRISTIAN, you would be insulted, and understand it.

Dude, what is this knee-jerk need of yours to always throw out the race card?

Sorry but I have a hard time equating refusing to make a gay wedding cake, or sell the morning after pill for instance, with refusing to serve lunch. I can find no moral objection that would justify refusing to serve a hamburger to a hungry person.

See that's where we differ, I'm willing to accommodate and find a compromise on issues with legitimate, reasonable religious objections and you aren't. You insist that a Christian violate their conscience on such matters. Would you force a Muslim caterer to serve pork at a wedding? What if a Muslim florist rejected doing a wedding in a church?

It's not a big deal, Tal, someone else would be more than willing to do this then everyone can be happy. But you perpetually offended lefties think anyone that doesn't accommodate your particular grievance groups for any reason is an unreasonable bigot that must be rehabilitated. Like I said, I would have done it, but I also respect the Christian couple's right to not be a part of it.

[talaniman]

I respect their position because they are responsible for the consequences of their actions not me, so it's up to the law now, and I respect that too.

My position is that religion is subjective to the practicing person but the law should apply to all. Like I said, if you cannot see the discrimination because of your religious views, that's a problem, but it's yours to solve. I have empathy and can appreciate the conflict between religious belief, and practice and the law.

Good Luck.

[smoothy]

Actually they did get another baker, and chose to exercise their right to file a complaint for discrimination, and seek redress in civil court.



Now we agree.



You really didn't want to piss off the chef back in the day, or now.

The Chef or anyone else like the Waitress or Waiters... even the busboy. Anyone that can come in contact with your food. And if they were smart... they would never overdo it and you'd never know what you ingested... ever. I honestly never felt the need to do it (only worked there a few months before I found something I liked better)... but I saw others that did.

Still sounds like someone with an agenda, looking to cause trouble... otherwise they would have far too many other things to worry about.

[paraclete]

Still sounds like someone with an agenda, looking to cause trouble.....otherwise they would have far too many other things to worry about.

Of course they have an agenda. Everyone must conform to their views or they are affronted. We are being forced, coerced, into accepting that which we oppose even though we are the majority.The world is tough and some people don't like gays by reason of their life style, I don't use a gay barber for example