[speechlesstx]

the birther issue was always bogus. The college records is an interesting issue ,but ultimately not very relevant to anything.There are now plenty of real issues about the emperor to deal with without wasting any effort on what at this point is a diversion . I'm sure he'd love to have people talking about his college records instead of his incompetent and corrupt execution of his duties .

But he's on it now, he's going to get Zimmerman - they've set up a tip line to get dirt on him for a civil case. Powerline calls it correctly:

As we have written repeatedly over the years, Barack Obama has introduced the concept of gangster government to the United States. But this is beyond the pale: the Obama administration has publicly solicited slander, directed against a private citizen who has already been acquitted of the only misdeed of which he has been accused. The Obama administration, it seems to me, has crossed the Rubicon. Its gangsterism should be condemned by all people of good faith, regardless of their political persuasion.

So, what other tip lines can we set up? Benghazi? IRS? Fast & Furious?

[talaniman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman
Now you know why we call them the party of angry white guys that only love rich guys. They are suspicious of everybody that doesn't look like them, nor conform to what they think is the way they think it should be. They call it principles, but I call it prejudice.

That's funny, we're not the ones telling everyone to beware of white guys, or "white Hispanic" guys.

No you holler that white guys can kill based on their feelings of fear. And punk George is a hero.

Quote:

Why else would they blame everything and everybody else but NEVER themselves, for anything? How else could you justify killing a kid, a neighbor, that gave a dumbass with a gun a bloody nose?

Trayvon is a thug, and so is the president, can we not see a pattern here? Can we not see a pattern in the way they govern when they have power?

That's even funnier, accusing us of passing the buck while the most transparent administration ever ducks, dodges, obstructs, conceals and blames everyone but himself for his failures and scandals.

I haven't accused you wingers of passing the buck, I stated that you use principles to justify your own prejudice. And make punks who screw up by the numbers into heroes.

[speechlesstx]

No you holler that white guys can kill based on their feelings of fear. And punk George is a hero.

I can't wait for this, prove it.

I haven't accused you wingers of passing the buck, I stated that you use principles to justify your own prejudice. And make punks who screw up by the numbers into heroes.

You spoke of deflecting blame, but the one thing that's clear here is these were both guys of color. It was not a white vs black thing and no one has found any evidence of it being racially motivated, so the only one justifying their prejudice is you.

Your prejudice against conservatives is so deep you can't acknowledge the plain fact that this was not about race. You can't let it go, you continue perpetuating the division and now go so far as to make this incredulous claim that we see Zimmerman as a hero. You're still on the same witch hunt the administration is on. I repeat:

But he's on it now, he's going to get Zimmerman - they've set up a tip line to get dirt on him for a civil case. Powerline calls it correctly:

Quote:
As we have written repeatedly over the years, Barack Obama has introduced the concept of gangster government to the United States. But this is beyond the pale: the Obama administration has publicly solicited slander, directed against a private citizen who has already been acquitted of the only misdeed of which he has been accused. The Obama administration, it seems to me, has crossed the Rubicon. Its gangsterism should be condemned by all people of good faith, regardless of their political persuasion.

A tip line? Seriously? This was not about feelings it was about facts, and the facts have spoken, the system has done its job, yet it is YOUR side taking your FEELINGS to absurd heights in making a mockery of our our country by going on a witch hunt against one private citizen while your government is spying on you, lying to you and using its power to harass and intimidate citizens for exercising their rights.

[tomder55]

I wonder how he'll reconcile that with the fact that the FBI did a thorough investigation of Zimmerman already and found no grounds for a civil rights charge.

[speechlesstx]

With this admin the facts are what you make them, and if that isn't enough you just muzzle them.

[tomder55]

Casablanca gambling? I'm shocked! - YouTube

[speechlesstx]

She did know what the law was but the judge denied immunity, she did know how to use a firearm, and chose a warning shot rather than injury or death, the intent was clear get him to leave, rather than kill. How is killing someone after losing the fight any different from warning off an abuser bent on beating your ? Had Zimmerman stayed in his car and waited for the cops we wouldn't be here so how is that killing not of his making?

The law is written to expand where you can kill a person beyond your own home and opens up for shoot first, think later, and the standards for reasonable fear of life is arbitrary, and undefined.

She should have used the Biden defense.

Vancouver man’s gun shooting defense: Biden

[tomder55]

The law is written to expand where you can kill a person beyond your own home and opens up for shoot first, think later, and the standards for reasonable fear of life is arbitrary, and undefined.

And when the Tampa Bay Times did a study of the application of the law it found that the stand your ground law benefits black defendants to a much greater extent than white defendants . But why should they have the right to defend themselves... right ?

[talaniman]

Stand your ground law, Trayvon Martin and a shocking legacy | Tampa Bay Times

A Tampa Bay Times investigation has found that Florida's "stand your ground" law is being used in ways never imagined — to free gang members involved in shootouts, drug dealers beefing with clients and people who shot their victims in the back.

Who goes free sometimes depend more on where a case is heard than its merits. Read the story

From the second link,

• Defendants claiming "stand your ground" are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.

If your link is different, please share.

[tomder55]

I went to the study itself to find that Black Floridians have made about a third of the state's total “Stand Your Ground” claims .The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.
You can look it up .
Stand your ground law, Trayvon Martin and a shocking legacy | Tampa Bay Times

Blacks :

7 convicted

25 justified

8 pending

Whites :
30 convicted

39 justified

9 pending

[talaniman]

Basically that's the same link, and I used this for a sample size comparison,

Florida Department of Law Enforcement

The list, though incomplete, is the most comprehensive in the state and likely includes most fatal cases.

This was the disclaimer for the TBT survey because the sample size they used was less than 1%. That's why I went to two other sources.

[speechlesstx]

I see we're having that honest conversation I challenged you to. Rich Lowry weighed in on that...

Let’s take the advice of the attorney general of the United States. Let’s have a national conversation about race in the wake of the Zimmerman case. Let’s make it a painfully honest conversation — except about all the things that are painful for us to admit.

Let’s take a tragedy and make it a racial crime. Let’s not acknowledge the evidence suggesting that Trayvon Martin was beating George Zimmerman. Let’s never, ever admit that if Martin hadn’t hit Zimmerman, he would almost certainly be alive today.

Let’s act as if the main threat to young black men in America is overzealous neighborhood watch volunteers who erroneously consider them suspicious, call the police and follow them, then shoot them in self-defense after a violent altercation in confusing circumstances that will never be entirely disentangled. Let’s pretend that this happens all the time.

Let’s send down the memory hole reports of burglaries and attempted break-ins in Zimmerman’s community that, according to a Reuters report, “had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.”

Let’s ignore that Zimmerman is from a mixed-race household. Let’s forget that he initially didn’t mention Martin’s race on his 911 call and said he “looks black” only when prompted by the operator. Let’s disregard testimony about his good character, lest it get in the way of the national dialogue about how he’s a racist murder who got away with it.

Let’s say the trial was about race in America or about whether black men can walk home from the store or any other insipid, racially charged nonsense to fill the air or the column inches. The national conversation cannot afford to get mired down in legal niceties like what constitutes lawful self-defense, let alone reasonable doubt.

Let’s call people we disagree with racists. We often do that anyway, but during such an open discussion, it is particularly important that dissenting voices be swiftly condemned. Richard Cohen, who wrote that Zimmerman might have had legitimate grounds to be suspicious of Martin? That guy is David Duke with a Washington Post column. Please refer all complaints about the publication of his piece to Fred Hiatt, editorial page editor of the Post. People have an obligation to be careful about what they say or publish during a national dialogue about race, especially one as freewheeling as this.

Let’s not talk about the 90 percent of black murder victims killed by other blacks. That is not a fit topic for the nation’s wide-ranging national conversation. Why should we get worked up about something that happens on the streets of Chicago literally every night? If you are bothered by routine slaughter, sadly, you just don’t get it. For national conversation purposes, not all murders are equal.

Let’s blast New York City’s stop-and-frisk policy as the worst kind of racial inequity. Let’s not bother to note that New York City once had 2,200 murders a year and now has 400, nor that many of the thousands of lives saved are those of black men. Let’s focus on the important thing — condemning the policy that is saving those lives as heinously racist.

Let’s talk about guns, except the guns that black men use to shoot other black men. No one should worry too much about those guns, or attempt to take them out of the hands of the people carrying them illegally, because that’s racist (please see above and try to follow along — this essential national dialogue cannot succeed without your careful attention).

Let’s listen to the attorney general inveigh against Stand Your Ground laws and make believe that he knows what the hell he’s talking about. Let’s ignore that the Stand Your Ground law wasn’t the reason the Sanford, Fla., police initially didn’t arrest Zimmerman and that it had nothing to do with the trial.

In short, let’s take a terrible event and make it a festival for all our ideological and racial ax-grinding and a showcase for our inability or unwillingness to reason clearly. Let’s do it in perpetually high dudgeon and while simultaneously patting ourselves on the back about our fearlessness and honesty.

Yes, Mr. Attorney General, you are right. This conversation is exactly what the country need

Read more: Opinion: Conversation about race? Get real - Rich Lowry - POLITICO.com

[paraclete]

So speech are you for or against the proposition that the Zimmerman result was racist?

[speechlesstx]

Have you not been paying attention?

[talaniman]

Zimmerman may not be a racist, but clearly his judgment has to be suspect at best. At worst he blundered into a bad situation and made it much worse. One juror has said she sympathized with him, but the stand your ground law gave her no other choice, but to acquit.

Was that racism..?. prejudice... or a lousy written law? The jury is out on this, until facts come out.

[speechlesstx]

The jury is not out, there has been no evidence of it being racially motivated. Give it up, dude. If you really want to get to that post-racial paradise Obama was supposed to usher in then stop stirring the pot.

Meanwhile, Chris Matthews took it upon himself to speak on behalf of "all white people."



Speak for yourself a$$hole, I have nothing to apologize for.

[smoothy]

Why don't I find this shocking? OH... its because a sitting president and the Attourney General are both calling for lynching an innocent man... in this day and age... and almost everyone on the left thinks it's a good idea.

And how exactly is that any different than a bunch of white guys 60 or more years ago calling for lynching a black man that was just found innocent of killing a white woman because they just KNEW he did it and justice wasn't served.

That's what is happening to Zimmerman right now.

[tomder55]

Let's take the advice of the attorney general of the United States. Let's have a national conversation about race in the wake of the Zimmerman case. Let's make it a painfully honest conversation — except about all the things that are painful for us to admit.

Let's take a tragedy and make it a racial crime. Let's not acknowledge the evidence suggesting that Trayvon Martin was beating George Zimmerman. Let's never, ever admit that if Martin hadn't hit Zimmerman, he would almost certainly be alive today.

Let's act as if the main threat to young black men in America is overzealous neighborhood watch volunteers who erroneously consider them suspicious, call the police and follow them, then shoot them in self-defense after a violent altercation in confusing circumstances that will never be entirely disentangled. Let's pretend that this happens all the time.

Let's send down the memory hole reports of burglaries and attempted break-ins in Zimmerman's community that, according to a Reuters report, “had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.”

Let's ignore that Zimmerman is from a mixed-race household. Let's forget that he initially didn't mention Martin's race on his 911 call and said he “looks black” only when prompted by the operator. Let's disregard testimony about his good character, lest it get in the way of the national dialogue about how he's a racist murder who got away with it.

Let's say the trial was about race in America or about whether black men can walk home from the store or any other insipid, racially charged nonsense to fill the air or the column inches. The national conversation cannot afford to get mired down in legal niceties like what constitutes lawful self-defense, let alone reasonable doubt.

Let's call people we disagree with racists. We often do that anyway, but during such an open discussion, it is particularly important that dissenting voices be swiftly condemned. Richard Cohen, who wrote that Zimmerman might have had legitimate grounds to be suspicious of Martin? That guy is David Duke with a Washington Post column. Please refer all complaints about the publication of his piece to Fred Hiatt, editorial page editor of the Post. People have an obligation to be careful about what they say or publish during a national dialogue about race, especially one as freewheeling as this.

Let's not talk about the 90 percent of black murder victims killed by other blacks. That is not a fit topic for the nation's wide-ranging national conversation. Why should we get worked up about something that happens on the streets of Chicago literally every night? If you are bothered by routine slaughter, sadly, you just don't get it. For national conversation purposes, not all murders are equal.

Let's blast New York City's stop-and-frisk policy as the worst kind of racial inequity. Let's not bother to note that New York City once had 2,200 murders a year and now has 400, nor that many of the thousands of lives saved are those of black men. Let's focus on the important thing — condemning the policy that is saving those lives as heinously racist.

Let's talk about guns, except the guns that black men use to shoot other black men. No one should worry too much about those guns, or attempt to take them out of the hands of the people carrying them illegally, because that's racist (please see above and try to follow along — this essential national dialogue cannot succeed without your careful attention).

Let's listen to the attorney general inveigh against Stand Your Ground laws and make believe that he knows what the hell he's talking about. Let's ignore that the Stand Your Ground law wasn't the reason the Sanford, Fla. police initially didn't arrest Zimmerman and that it had nothing to do with the trial.

In short, let's take a terrible event and make it a festival for all our ideological and racial ax-grinding and a showcase for our inability or unwillingness to reason clearly. Let's do it in perpetually high dudgeon and while simultaneously patting ourselves on the back about our fearlessness and honesty.

Yes, Mr. Attorney General, you are right. This conversation is exactly what the country needs

.

Rich Lowry is editor of National Review and the author of the new book “Lincoln Unbound.”

Conversation about race? Get real - POLITICO.com Print View

[talaniman]

The election of a black man isn't ushering in a post racial period and the white men on your side are still angry at everyone but themselves so you want to have a conversation, learn how to talk not command and demand, and demean.

While many places have come a long way, Sanford Florida clearly has not come as far. They are still the place that ran Branch Rickey out when he brought in Jackie Robinson. You can thank Zimmerman for continuing the tradition of lousy judgment that led directly to tragedy.

Go ahead keep letting ALEC write the laws for you.

[smoothy]

Yeah.. the left still keeps the KKK alive in their hearts... because if a legal decision isn't what they demand... then its wrong. And they refuse to respect it.

I suppose we should organise a lynching of the people that supported Obamacare... and affirmative action... those were wrong legal decisions and justice wasn't served there either.