[Tc123]

Can a man get arrested for grabbing a woman's butt even if he knows her? We were friends when he did it the first time. I told him repeatedly to stop and never do it again. He did it again anyway. I know this is some form of abuse since he did it again knowing that it upset me. I also know it falls under either molestation and/or assault? Not 100% sure of the latter.

I am not thinking about having him arrested. I simply lost contact with him for good as a friend since he is disrespectful. We were never anything more than friends.

I know that someone can indeed be arrested and serve time and/or have to pay a fine for groping someone. I am curious to know if the same would apply if the man and woman or both people were friends at the time.

Thanks very much in advance!

[J_9]

Yes, it does still apply if you are friends. It falls under sexual assault.

[AK lawyer]

Yes, it does still apply if you are friends. It falls under sexual assault.

That would depend on the definitions for the specific statute in OP's state.

The police are going to be reluctant to bother with it because:

• It will probably be hard to prove without witnesses, unless he admits doing it.
  
• It perhaps won't be viewed as serious enough to warrant action.

[J_9]

The police are going to be reluctant to bother with it because:

It will probably be hard to prove without witnesses, unless he admits doing it.
It perhaps won't be viewed as serious enough to warrant action.

True, but I have seen someone arrested for it. The charge was sexual assault and battery.

[AK lawyer]

True, but I have seen someone arrested for it. The charge was sexual assault and battery.

I thought about bring it up before, but hesitated.

Here goes:

I find it to be an interesting view on changes in our culture how old films depict sexual advances and resulting rejection. In films of, say, the 1940s, it was common for a man to attempt to kiss a woman, and at first be rejected. He would persist and she would acquiesce, and eventually visibly exhibit reciprical passion. In that time, it would appear, it was socially acceptable, and even a sign of appropriate manliness, to persist despite initial rejection.

Could the man who repeatedly fondled the OP successfully make a similar defense today?

And the answer would depend, at least in part, on how emphatic she was when she said "no" the first time.

[Tc123]

Thank you so much for responding to my question. After reading both your posts, I felt I needed to give more details.

I apologize for not naming my state. I live in NY. I didn't feel it was important. I am not going to try and have this person arrested. If he did this to me in passing, (I can only think of running into him at a local grocery store - I know his schedule and avoid certain times), then yes I would. I would also slap him and maybe more than once. I don't know if I would do this right in the grocery store but it is hard to say.

I have to say that if such a case were ever presented in court, it would be difficult. My former friend would initially admit it to the police because he thinks it is okay. I'm sure in court he would be advised by then from a lawyer or someone not to admit to it anymore.

I will call him Bill. I'm going to try not to be subjective since the last two times I replied, my computer locked up and thankfully so. The post was too lengthy. Let me try it this way...

I had not seen Bill in many years. I've known his whole family growing up because his mother and my mother were good friends. I've never known him to be a bad person and still really don't. I did hear he was abusive but he never did anything to me and I chose to ignore it. Two ex-girlfriends dislike him because of his character ALLEGEDLY. The mother of his child also feels the same. Ex's may say these things and they may or may not be true.

2007 - I got his number and reached out to him. I had lived in another town at the time. I called him to see if he knew of any available apartments. I was in his apt. doing dishes for him when he first groped me. When I turned around, although I did not raise my voice, it was clear that I was upset and yes, I did say, "Stop!" As soon as I turned back around to continue with the dishes he did it again. I yelled, "STOP! Why would you do that? I told you not to. You knew it upset me and you did it anyway." (I know that this is just one form of abuse). He asked me if I was schizophrenic. I am not. I told him that it would not matter if someone was sick. That is neither here nor there. Bill was confused as to why my mood changed. I soon left. I just wanted to point out that before I submitted my question to AMHD, I googled this and was quite surprised. Women reacted violently. I understand that. If charges were ever filed against the woman for hitting or hurting the man, those charges were dropped by the judge.

2007 - 1 week later - I went back to his apt. to meet his landlord since he had an available apt. Ironically, his landlord is a local police officer. I did not stay long enough for him to do this again.

2010 - I moved within the same town as Bill.

2011- I reached out to him when I had an emergency. He did work on my home for me. I paid him. Eventually, we had BBQ's and sometimes Sunday football.

Once some time had passed, I am only guessing that he felt it was safe to try again. When I say try again, I do not mean make a move because he was interested. I am sorry to say that he is rude at times, disrespectful, and abusive in just about every sense of the word. But he also has a very good side to him. He can be very kind and goodhearted. This does not excuse the behavior.

It is difficult to convey who I am through these means and I am not sure how I am coming across. I am not stupid nor am I an abuser. I am sorry to say this but Bill is illiterate. I do not believe that defines a person at all. Some of the above attributes maybe, but there are so many things one has to consider and look at. He will put people down, mainly women, in an attempt to make himself look and feel better. Forgive me if I am insulting your intelligence. I don't mean to. Someone like this usually does not feel good about themselves and usually has low self-esteem.

I am well aware that I should not have remained in contact with him nor should I have given him chance after chance. I am not promiscuous. He was VERY well aware that this upset me and again, this in itself is abuse.

I am going to have to get back here... I keep getting locked up. Just want to add I would never exhibit passion under those circumstances. He could not make a similar defense as you (lawyer) put it. It's not possible under the circumstances. Was I emphatic? You have no Idea.

Please forgive me and I mean no disrespect. I have tried over and over to post here and I keep getting locked up.

I know that this falls under sex crimes. Or am I wrong? I just wanted to know if someone could be arrested if the suspect and victim were friends. To what extent, etc. I cannot elaborate anymore right now so if anyone does try to answer, it is going to be difficult since I did not get to finish.

To anyone else just checking the post... Remove yourself from anyone like this. They are unhealthy. They are disrespectful. Do not question it or second guess yourself. No, you did not deserve it and don't listen to anyone that tries to tell you that. I have permanently removed myself from this person. There is so much more but I know that I am about to get booted off here for the 4th time.

No words other than thanks again to the two for your expertise and input. I appreciate it!

[AK lawyer]

... know that this falls under sex crimes. Or am I wrong? I just wanted to know if someone could be arrested if the suspect and victim were friends. ...

Thank you for your exceptionally well-detailed and lucid clarification.

One point in your narrative is still unclear, however. Did he do it again after the first occasion in 2007? And if so, what were the specific circumstances then?

Yes, if he committed a crime the fact that you are friends doesn't excuse it per se.

Here are the pertinent portions of the New York Penal Code:

" § 130.05 Sex offenses; lack of consent.
1. Whether or not specifically stated, it is an element of every
offense defined in this article that the sexual act was committed
without consent of the victim.
2. Lack of consent results from:
(a) Forcible compulsion; or
(b) Incapacity to consent; or
(c) Where the offense charged is sexual abuse or forcible touching,
any circumstances, in addition to forcible compulsion or incapacity to
consent, in which the victim does not expressly or impliedly acquiesce
in the actor's conduct; ..."

" § 130.52 Forcible touching.
A person is guilty of forcible touching when such person
intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, forcibly touches the
sexual or other intimate parts of another person for the purpose of
degrading or abusing such person; or for the purpose of gratifying the
actor's sexual desire.
For the purposes of this section, forcible touching includes
squeezing, grabbing or pinching.
Forcible touching is a class A misdemeanor."

So it appears to me that that he probably has committed a misdeanor. Whether he will be prosecuted is another story, for the reasons previously discussed.

If I were defending him, the issues that I might raise are the following:

1. Was the touching "forceable"? I don't see that the term is defined in statute, other than the phrase "squeezing, grabbing or pinching".
2. What was the purpose of the touching. It might be arguable that it was inadvertent."

[Tc123]

Hiya Lawyer. Listen, I want you to know how much I appreciate everything. I mean that! You asked me about after 2007. That is what I did not get to finish at the time. Maybe I can if it is okay with you later but right now I can't. (Also, I have to check the terms & conditions with the site) I am not ashamed to admit that maybe I need a little help right now with this. But I respect you and your opinion. I do! Even though your comment re: "lucid" is questionable... Don't get me wrong. Sometimes things can get lost in translation through these means, emails, etc. But again, thanks so much. I do hope it is okay to explain more later. Really. Take good care now and have a good day! Be well! Thanks again and again! T

[J_9]

Is there some reason you just can't remove him from your life entirely?

While it appear that "Bill" can be arrested and charged for this groping, his defense would counter that you continue to remain in close and personal contact with him.

[Tc123]

Hiya J9. I hope that all is well with you & I really appreciate that you keep replying. I am no longer in contact with him. I have permanently removed myself from him. I am genuinely sorry for any confusion. After I tried to reply a few times, I became frustrated here. It is not the site. It is most likely my computer. Believe me, I do understand why you would be asking that. I explained it before but my computer really did get locked up each time. It is just very trying and draining right now to keep repeating everything. Maybe later... Thank you so much again. I mean that. I guess it is too hard for me right now. I would rather keep reaching out right now to these other hurting souls on this site.

I have/had a different sign on name from an old computer whereas I was a previous member. Once I figure that out, maybe you guys may get to know me better. I know it's not too important in this case but maybe it would give you a better idea of things. Thank you so much again for your input and trying to help. It is just hard right now. I'll figure it out eventually but it is not because I cannot let go. I chose to remove myself from a very unhealthy situation. Thank you so much again and take good care. T

[J_9]

Okay, you have removed him from your life. Stop focusing on this and move on.

[Fr_Chuck]

The issue, if you were married, or lovers, or if he was allowed to grap your butt for the last 10 years, it does not really matter, he needs to be told no.

In fact, you should not have to alter or change your life, because of him, that is living in terror and allow that terror to control you.

You need to take control and stop him, Personally I would notify him in writing, send a copy of the law, explain that police will be called next time it happens, if he replys or threatens, get a order of protection, to keep him away, if he threatens you.

If he does it again, have him arrested.

If you are not willing to have him arrested, then why even worry if it is against the law, you are allowing it to happen, unless you put a stop to it.

[AK lawyer]

... if he does it again, have him arrested.
...

Actually, depending on how he fondled her, it might not be a crime.

As my previous research revealed, the crime of forcible touching requires "squeezing, grabbing or pinching". If he gently stroked her, no crime and thus no arrest.

Sorry I wasn't "emphatic" about that earlier.:)

[joypulv]

A woman who is not under some control or perception of authority by a person who gropes should have nothing to do with that person after the first NO, and then the second grope. You told him 'repeatedly' but aren't clear how many times that was, and why you continued to be his friend and spend time together alone.

I realize that my comment isn't in legal terms. It's common sense.

[J_9]

Oh, but Joy, your comment is legal in a way and would be brought up in court by the defense attorney.

[ScottGem]

Its not clear whether the groping reoccurred in 2011. But even if it did, no prosecutor is going to touch this.

Too much time has past and the courts are too crowded to spend tax payer dollars on it. The most that might happen is you file a police report, the police talk to him and tell him that its not acceptable behavior and then file the report.

[JudyKayTee]

In my humble opinion the Police and "his" Attorney are going to use the same argument - she said no, he did it again, she said no, repeat the sequence.

Now we're talking about a crime being committed?

That ship sailed with the second "no."

[Tc123]

Hey there everyone. I didn't realize people were still replying to this.

Fr_Chuck, Thank you so much my dollin' for your always straight forward opinion which is usually correct! And JKT as well. (Once I can figure out my old username and how to sign back on with it, you will understand. I'm on a different computer... Ding. Just realized, hook that computer back up and maybe, just maybe, I will be able to get my old ID back and you will know who this is. Just know that I missed and LOVE you guys! Really.) And thanks to all of you that replied. It means a lot considering...

I knew very well that I should have removed myself from this person long ago. My mistake for sure. There is something wrong right there.

I just want to say that I feel a little bit ridiculous. When I view some of the other questions/issues on the site, it is very heartbreaking. People here have far worse problems, real problems and I'm a bit ashamed. I know that I am allowed to ask a question and all but I sometimes say to myself, "C'mon now...." There is a bit more to this story of mine and it is true. It's just harder than I thought to talk about. Probably need a professional and I'm not ashamed of that. Just that there really is some hurt going on... Would rather try to help others right now.

Thanks again all and may you all be well!! I'm going to jump over to the "Cooking" section. Last night someone got me in the mood for some things that are NOT on my diet. Smiles...

[JudyKayTee]

Yes, FrChuck sure is a dollin (or something).

[joypulv]

'Or something' to the light and airy casual flavor that is now a cryptic tale that can only be told to a professional.