[NY_Mom]

Hey guys,

I've been searching Google trying to understand parental rights (particularly those of a father whom isn't interested) and this site has popped up a few times and seems very helpful. I hope you can help me as well. :)

The reason I call my situation unusual is because the father isn't here in the States (I live in NY), but lives in London, England.

I'll try to give a condensed version of everything for you.

The father and I had been friends for a couple years (over the net) and he's always been well-known for meeting new people/having them stay there/him staying at their houses. In short, he's a people person and loves meeting them all the time. So I thought nothing to stay with him/his family for a month on my first trip away from home (I've known people whom have stayed there before to... no murdering XD).

We ended up taking things a bit further and I came home pregnant.

I was scared at first on how to tell my parents (I am 20, but my dad still scares me to tell him such things. Not out of abuse, just disappointing people is an issue of mine). And was afraid things in my life would be ruined, yet I was also extremely happy - even though I never considered myself the mothering type. I told the father this and shared my concerns at the time.

At this stage him and I were already having problems with him suddenly being aloof (always the case, eh?) so we weren't the happy-go-lucky friends/more than friends we had been before. Nonetheless, he told me he would support me in whatever I chose.

I chose to keep the child and face my fears (I've always said I would never have an abortion but it's tough to still say that when faced with such fear... I'm glad I didn't do it).

I told him this and he wasn't very happy. He told me I should have an abortion because we couldn't afford a kid, he wouldn't be able to see it, and various other reasons.

I told him point blank I could afford a baby (admittly, with family help - we have a big one with lots of babies a little older, who helped with a crib and stuff). And I have never ever asked him for any money. In fact, I still don't want any money from him.

Needless to say I refused to have an abortion and told him he didn't have to be involved if he didn't want to be. He claimed he couldn't just not be involved and I was forcing him to be just by having the kid. Okay, well that was his choice and I understood it but I wasn't going to abort my baby out of guilt.

To shorten things up a bit for you guys...

It was at the point where he wouldn't ever ask me about the baby or how it was doing. I'd ask him if he even cared to know what was going on and he would make replies such as "you'd update me if it was something important." Honestly, this irked me beyond belief since I personally felt he should ask if he wanted to know. Not expect me to run around trying to get ahold of him to let him know of things.

At this point and to this day (to my knowledge) he hasn't told his mother about the baby. He is 22 years old (might be 23) and this complicated things (with his mother) since I couldn't just leave him IMs over an instant messenger or give him a call without risking someone in his family seeing it and him being cruel over it... he would have possibly stated I did it on purpose.

He'd find things to argue over such as whether the baby should have a circumscission (May have spelled that wrong). We had discussed this before knowing the baby's sex, since I wanted his opinion on it so I would know his ideas... I planned to know the baby's gender, and he didn't want to know. He was against it and I was for it. I told him I'd ask the doctor's about it to get some medical opinions and discuss what I learned with him to make a better decision.

He has since claimed I am going to mutilate the baby and such... let me think how to explain this: I told him I'd look into it and all he heard was "I'm doing it my way and that's that." I sometimes wonder about his stability and his amazing ability to lie about the situation so much to make himself look good... that he might actually believe some stuff he's come up with now.

To try to shorten this even more: It got to the point where I was sick of trying to get him to seem interested in being involved (he showed some for a little while, then it was ruined). So at this point we are not in contact with each other.

At the end of December one of his friends told me he was going around stating he would be involved if I asked.

So, I emailed the father taking him up on that offer. He then showed his paranoia of someone telling me he even said that - then proceeded to state he was too busy with his life to deal with it and that he would contact me when he was ready.

That came after me emailing him twice - once with me uploading a video of the baby (knew it was a boy at this time) squirming around in my stomach since he's always been very active... so he could have it to see if he decided to be involved. - I never heard any word on that, merely got the "busy with life" line.

A few weeks ago, I ran across him on a community in livejournal and he claimed -I- was the one not contacting him. When I pointed out he told me not to... he stated he forgot.

Overall, my questions are as follows:

1) Should I go for custody? My baby is due March 4th and I'm scared the father may appear randomly sometime this year or whenever he decides to be involved and aim to take custody.

Honestly, I wouldn't deny him visitation rights - but I don't want him with custody. He stated he would never hand over his parental rights... which makes no sense to me, since he doesn't want to be involved from all his actions?

2) Should I tell his mother? This one tears me up inside because I love his mom and think she is a wonderful lady. However, I am terrified that if I tell her about her grandchild (and that she is welcome to come and visit any time) or would that look bad on me - as if I am going behind his back?

3) If he does show up randomly - after say 6months or more, does he have the right to try for custody?

He has been an awful guy since this started. He would be emotionally abusive by saying things he knew would upset me. I was getting sick more than necessary in my first trimester due to the stress of him, and at one point during my second he upset me so much I could barely see when driving to my college for lab... and ended up turning around anyway (despite needing to be there for this one) and finding my sister at her work just to cry.

I told him how he was making me feel and how upset he was making me - and he'd put it on me... saying it was my own fault I got upset so easily. =/

At one point he even told me to put whatever name on the birth certificate I wanted (meaning another guy) and to just consider him a sperm donor. He however, still implied he'd go for his rights if I tried to take them away.

I am just scared and confused, I don't know what to do and I was hoping for some perspective from people outside my circle of family and friends.

I considered going to a lawyer to ask this, but that thought scares me as well and makes it more real. I don't want to go to court only to be told he can have unsupervised visitation rights... and risk him taking my baby overseas and not seeing him again (my nurse cautioned me on this).


As I said, the father is a people person and a smooth liar - I'm worried he might be able to fool people.

I have kept logs of all our conversations, the emails, comments on each other's livejournals and everything I could think of. I have the evidence, but I don't know if the court would care about that stuff.

Sorry this was so long,
- Confused

[Synnen]

Talk to a lawyer. You don't have to DO anything at this point, but you need to talk to one.

That being said--this guy is an . Write him off. If he decides he wants custody, fight tooth and nail. I sincerely doubt that any court would award him any sort of custody at this point in time, and most courts will have rulings on international visitations. (That's one of the big reasons you need to talk to a lawyer.)

Send this guy a note. Let him know that you are open to sharing information on the child IF HE ASKS, but that it's not your responsibility, nor your problem to make that decision for him. Email it to him, mail it to him, do something so that there is no doubt whatsoever that it was meant to be delivered solely to him.

As far as his mother goes... That's not your responsibility either. If you like her and want her involved, then by all means let her know that you're pregnant. She's going go find out eventually anyway. These things have a way of getting out. Hell, do it the dirty way if you like and tell someone who can tell someone who will tell her. I'm betting, however, that she probably already knows and just has no idea how to approach you.

It sounds as though you are not interested in a relationship with this guy--good for you! Since you don't have that emotional burden--just remember that you don't owe him anything. He's had his chances to discuss things with you, and blown it. Like most guys who are faced with an unplanned/unwanted/whatever pregnancy... it's not real to him yet. It's VERY real to you, since it's YOUR bladder the kiddo kicks when he doesn't like what you just ate... but until there's an actual baby, he's still in denial. He might be in denial then, too, but he's for sure in denial now.

So... to make that all much shorter... bedamned with him! Make yourself and your baby happy, and let him fight for what he wants when he gets his act together.

[NY_Mom]

Lol, you made me smile. :)

I've told him several times basically what you just said - that it isn't my job to keep him updated if he doesn't ask. If he wanted to know, he would. XD

However your ending brought up the other question I wanted to ask: Should I tell him after the baby is born and send pics? I don't know if maybe that'll bring him into reality or not... but seeing my pregnany belly over time should have done that too. (We're in some of the same groups, so he's seen these pics and such).

I am positive his mom wouldn't find out unless he told her, primarily because he's one of those very secretive people and good at it. He even blocked a friend from dropping of their Christmas gifts to them from me (showing my appreciation of them letting me stay there) so the friend had to wait until the father was at work and not home, but they were.

I'll take your advice and see a lawyer asap - and perhaps even ask him or her what to do with the mom situation (or let him or her contact her XD).

His mom recently moved out of the house (until about a week ago he was still living with his family) so it might be harder to get ahold of her... but I am also best friends (online wise) with one of his real life friends, and I know he'd get me the info but I would feel sneaky doing that, lol. <-- I guess sometimes we have to be, though?

Thank you for your reply. :)

[miss crazy]

Hi NY_Mom,
All I can say is that I found out about my father when I was 31, I was hurt, upset, confused. But when I sat down and spoke to my mum about it the reason she didn't tell me earlya is that she didn't want me to feel any different to my other sisters or brother and she didn't want me to feel any different towards my dad. Which I can sort of understand. I love my mum and dad with all I am and nothing will ever change that. So no-one can really answer your question about telling your son except you. I'm torn if it would have been better for me to have know back then or now, who can tell what would have happened ? The name on my birth certificate is that of my dad and not my father, as my dad took me on as his own child. But in a way now I wish he hadn't because it has made it impossible for anyone to help me trace my father. But on the other hand it just shows how much my dad loved me and wanted me to be his. I also have a daughter from my first marriage, who is 11 years old now and she has never met her father, She was 2 months old when we split up. I re-married when she was 2 years old and she called the man I married DAD. She has always know about her father and I have never lied about him to her, and when the time came that she asked me about him I told her that me and her father loved each other and her at the time she was conceived but then we fell out of love. My first husband never wanted her and was jealous of her, He often said that we would have been fine if it wasn't for 'that thing' (meaning my daughter). I have also explained to her that anyone can be a father and make a baby but it takes a real man to be a DAD. A dad is someone that picks you up when you fall, a dad is someone who wipes away your tears and is always there to love you. I am very lucky that she understands that, and she isn't really interested in him. If I was you I would cover my own back and get in touch with a lawyer. Tell them the situation and that the father doesn't want anything to do with the child, So if at a later time he dose want to try anything, your covered. My ex only wanted to play at being a father when it suited him, and I wasn't going to put up with that as it was unfair to my child to be used like that. His mother said that she would like to be intouch with me and my daughter, but she would always be on the side of her son. That didn't last either. My daughter knows nothing about her at all. You have to stop thinking about how to make him happy and what's best for him and start thinking what is best for you and your son, that's what really counts. You will get through this together. It will be hard at times but just be honest with yourself and your son. When your son is old enough to understand then tell him what his father was like, but until then just keep it simple. If he get love from you and your family he will grow up happy. I hope this has been of some small help to you. Good luck and I hope all goes well for you and your son. If you want to talk again just e-mail.

Miss crazy.

[NY_Mom]

Hi NY_Mom,
All I can say is that I found out about my father when I was 31...

Miss crazy.

I just wanted to say thank you for that lengthy reply, it really helped me with the situation of wondering how to tell my son. :)

I have decided to give the father one more chance - I sent him an email letting him know I'd be calling a few days after Aidan is born, and he can either hang up and I won't even bother again... or he can actually hold a conversation and we can possibly work something out soon.

I don't have high hopes for it, but if I can give Aidan his biological father in his life (even if only a little bit) I would find it better than nothing. :)

This is going to be my last attempt, and from there I will merely aim to ensure the 'father' gets no rights due to his behavior. I still stand by what I said that I wouldn't stop him from ever seeing him, I just don't think he has earned the title yet.

[miss crazy]

I just wanted to say thank you for that lengthy reply, it really helped me with the situation of wondering how to tell my son. :)

I have decided to give the father one more chance - I sent him an email letting him know I'd be calling a few days after Aidan is born, and he can either hang up and I won't even bother again...or he can actually hold a conversation and we can possibly work something out soon.

I don't have high hopes for it, but if I can give Aidan his biological father in his life (even if only a little bit) I would find it better than nothing. :)

This is going to be my last attempt, and from there I will merely aim to ensure the 'father' gets no rights due to his behavior. I still stand by what I said that I wouldn't stop him from ever seeing him, I just don't think he has earned the title yet.

Hi NY_MOm.
I'm glad I could help in some small way. I really do wish you all the luck in the world for you and your son Aidan, I know you will be fine. Take care and best wishes for the future. Let us know when he is born ! Xx

Miss Crazy :)

[vlee]

Hey guys,

I've been searching google trying to understand parental rights (particularly those of a father whom isn't interested) and this site has popped up a few times and seems very helpful. I hope you can help me as well. :)

The reason I call my situation unusual is because the father isn't here in the States (I live in NY), but lives in London, England.

I'll try to give a condensed version of everything for you.

The father and I had been friends for a couple years (over the net) and he's always been well-known for meeting new people/having them stay there/him staying at their houses. In short, he's a people person and loves meeting them all the time. So I thought nothing to stay with him/his family for a month on my first trip away from home (I've known people whom have stayed there before to...no murdering XD).

We ended up taking things a bit further and I came home pregnant.

I was scared at first on how to tell my parents (I am 20, but my dad still scares me to tell him such things. Not out of abuse, just disappointing people is an issue of mine). And was afraid things in my life would be ruined, yet I was also extremely happy - even though I never considered myself the mothering type. I told the father this and shared my concerns at the time.

At this stage him and I were already having problems with him suddenly being aloof (always the case, eh?) so we weren't the happy-go-lucky friends/more than friends we had been before. Nonetheless, he told me he would support me in whatever I chose.

I chose to keep the child and face my fears (I've always said I would never have an abortion but it's tough to still say that when faced with such fear...I'm glad I didn't do it).

I told him this and he wasn't very happy. He told me I should have an abortion because we couldn't afford a kid, he wouldn't be able to see it, and various other reasons.

I told him point blank I could afford a baby (admittly, with family help - we have a big one with lots of babies a little older, who helped with a crib and stuff). And I have never ever asked him for any money. In fact, I still don't want any money from him.

Needless to say I refused to have an abortion and told him he didn't have to be involved if he didn't want to be. He claimed he couldn't just not be involved and I was forcing him to be just by having the kid. Okay, well that was his choice and I understood it but I wasn't going to abort my baby out of guilt.

To shorten things up a bit for you guys...

It was at the point where he wouldn't ever ask me about the baby or how it was doing. I'd ask him if he even cared to know what was going on and he would make replies such as "you'd update me if it was something important." Honestly, this irked me beyond belief since I personally felt he should ask if he wanted to know. Not expect me to run around trying to get ahold of him to let him know of things.

At this point and to this day (to my knowledge) he hasn't told his mother about the baby. He is 22 years old (might be 23) and this complicated things (with his mother) since I couldn't just leave him IMs over an instant messenger or give him a call without risking someone in his family seeing it and him being cruel over it...he would have possibly stated I did it on purpose.

He'd find things to argue over such as whether or not the baby should have a circumscission (May have spelled that wrong). We had discussed this before knowing the baby's sex, since I wanted his opinion on it so I would know his ideas...I planned to know the baby's gender, and he didn't want to know. He was against it and I was for it. I told him I'd ask the doctor's about it to get some medical opinions and discuss what I learned with him to make a better decision.

He has since claimed I am going to mutilate the baby and such...let me think how to explain this: I told him I'd look into it and all he heard was "I'm doing it my way and that's that." I sometimes wonder about his stability and his amazing ability to lie about the situation so much to make himself look good...that he might actually believe some stuff he's come up with now.

To try to shorten this even more: It got to the point where I was sick of trying to get him to seem interested in being involved (he showed some for a little while, then it was ruined). So at this point we are not in contact with each other.

At the end of December one of his friends told me he was going around stating he would be involved if I asked.

So, I emailed the father taking him up on that offer. He then showed his paranoia of someone telling me he even said that - then proceeded to state he was too busy with his life to deal with it and that he would contact me when he was ready.

That came after me emailing him twice - once with me uploading a video of the baby (knew it was a boy at this time) squirming around in my stomach since he's always been very active...so he could have it to see if he decided to be involved. - I never heard any word on that, merely got the "busy with life" line.

A few weeks ago, I ran across him on a community in livejournal and he claimed -I- was the one not contacting him. When I pointed out he told me not to....he stated he forgot.

Overall, my questions are as follows:

1) Should I go for custody? My baby is due March 4th and I'm scared the father may appear randomly sometime this year or whenever he decides to be involved and aim to take custody.

Honestly, I wouldn't deny him visitation rights - but I don't want him with custody. He stated he would never hand over his parental rights...which makes no sense to me, since he doesn't want to be involved from all his actions?

2) Should I tell his mother? This one tears me up inside because I love his mom and think she is a wonderful lady. However, I am terrified that if I tell her about her grandchild (and that she is welcome to come and visit any time) or would that look bad on me - as if I am going behind his back?

3) If he does show up randomly - after say 6months or more, does he have the right to try for custody?

He has been an awful guy since this started. He would be emotionally abusive by saying things he knew would upset me. I was getting sick more than necessary in my first trimester due to the stress of him, and at one point during my second he upset me so much I could barely see when driving to my college for lab...and ended up turning around anyway (despite needing to be there for this one) and finding my sister at her work just to cry.

I told him how he was making me feel and how upset he was making me - and he'd put it on me...saying it was my own fault I got upset so easily. =/

At one point he even told me to put whatever name on the birth certificate I wanted (meaning another guy) and to just consider him a sperm donor. He however, still implied he'd go for his rights if I tried to take them away.

I am just scared and confused, I don't know what to do and I was hoping for some perspective from people outside my circle of family and friends.

I considered going to a lawyer to ask this, but that thought scares me as well and makes it more real. I don't want to go to court only to be told he can have unsupervised visitation rights...and risk him taking my baby overseas and not seeing him again (my nurse cautioned me on this).


As I said, the father is a people person and a smooth liar - I'm worried he might be able to fool people.

I have kept logs of all our conversations, the emails, comments on each other's livejournals and everything I could think of. I have the evidence, but I don't know if the court would care about that stuff.

Sorry this was so long,
- Confused

Hmmm.. This is complicated, but I am married to an English citizen, though we reside in the states. From all I have learned through my experiences with family law in the US, you probably do not need to file for full custody. I say this because as an English national, the father will not have sway with the courts here to remove the child from the county in which you live, let alone the countRy. He would have to move to the US to gain access to the child, most likely. Is he made of $$$? Cause that's what it would take... money for visas, money fro living expenses during proceedings, money for a lawyer, and money to hire an immigration attorney to keep him in the states. Plus, your child is a US citizen, so if taken overseas by his daddy, dad is in big trouble if you don't approve. Keep a low profile. Stop inviting him to join your child's life if you are unprepared for a court battle. And DO NOT tell his mother. She is likely to try to light a fire under his a@@ to be a big part of his kid's life. You could pursue full custody, but he will have to be notified. You could pursue termination of parental rights, although even with his disinterest you may not win. The longer he is absent from your child's life, the better your chances for being a solo parent, legally. But it's up to you to determine what is best for your child. If this guy walks into your child's life now, do you believe he will be in it forever? Will he have your child's best interest at heart, even if he gets angry with you? As one who has been divorced with a child before, I'd let him go.

[NY_Mom]

Hmmm.. This is complicated, but I am married to an English citizen, though we reside in the states. From all I have learned through my experiences with family law in the US, you probably do not need to file for full custody. I say this because as an English national, the father will not have sway with the courts here to remove the child from the county in which you live, let alone the countRy. He would have to move to the US to gain access to the child, most likely. Is he made of $$$? Cause that's what it would take...money for visas, money fro living expenses during proceedings, money for a lawyer, and money to hire an immigration attorney to keep him in the states. Plus, your child is a US citizen, so if taken overseas by his daddy, dad is in big trouble if you don't approve. Keep a low profile. Stop inviting him to join your child's life if you are unprepared for a court battle. And DO NOT tell his mother. She is likely to try to light a fire under his a@@ to be a big part of his kid's life. You could persue full custody, but he will have to be notified. You could persue termination of parental rights, although even with his disinterest you may not win. The longer he is absent from your child's life, the better your chances for being a solo parent, legally. But it's up to you to determine what is best for your child. If this guy walks into your child's life now, do you believe he will be in it forever? Will he have your child's best interest at heart, even if he gets angry with you? As one who has been divorced with a child before, I'd let him go.

You gave me a fair bit to think about and I thank you for this. He isn't made of money but once threatened he would use his mother's cash to get a good lawyer if he had to (although to my knowledge she doesn't have a ton either - and just bought a house I believe, thus doesn't have much left).

I did not know all of that about him not being able to do any of that due to Aidan being a US Citizen, and I thank you for the knowledge. It still leaves a slight fear though of him taking him anyway and hiding him for as long as necessary or something... probably an irrational fear, but possible nonetheless.

I had already emailed him previous to reading this about trying to talk things out, but you have me waivering on that. I have yet to receive a proper time from him to make a phone call, and if I do not hear from him about it - I certainly will not try to get him involved anymore.

Again - thank you for the response. :)

Miss Crazy: Aidan was born on March 12th, 2007 at 8:17pm EST. :)

[vlee]

I am glad I could help, but this is still a catch 22 you know. If the guy moves to the US, you are a 50/50 parent with him legally, unless you file for sole custody, possibly granting him visitation. The terms of visitation can vary from a regular schedule to "upon mutual agreement", which means you must consent to any time they spend together. That is easiest to obtain when a guy proves himself to be of poor character/judgment, but may not be impossible since your son's dad lives in a foreign country.

My husband and I have been married for 2 1/2 years and if he were to leave me today, he could not legally take our son back to England, as our son is a US citizen. This is not say people don't do it illegally, but most won't.

More importantly than anything else, congratulations on the birth of your beautiful new son. I hope you both have a very happy life together!

[vlee]

Oh, and please don't make your final decision based only on what I write, get the advice of an attorney. These are just my suggestions based on my experience, but an attorney can give you the concrete facts.