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 Originally Posted by excon
Lucky for us there was a President in that period who understood the path to prosperity . “It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now … Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.” John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president’s news conference “Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964 “In today’s economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President” “It is no contradiction – the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today’s economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President” “Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session. “A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues.” John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill “In those countries where income taxes are lower than in the United States, the ability to defer the payment of U.S. tax by retaining income in the subsidiary companies provides a tax advantage for companies operating through overseas subsidiaries that is not available to companies operating solely in the United States. Many American investors properly made use of this deferral in the conduct of their foreign investment.” John F. Kennedy, April 20, 1961, message to Congress on taxation “Our present tax system … exerts too heavy a drag on growth … It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking … The present tax load … distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities.” John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference “The present tax codes … inhibit the mobility and formation of capital, add complexities and inequities which undermine the morale of the taxpayer, and make tax avoidance rather than market factors a prime consideration in too many economic decisions.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 23, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform “In short, it is a paradoxical truth that … the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country’s own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference “The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform “A bill will be presented to the Congress for action next year. It will include an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in both corporate and personal income taxes. It will include long-needed tax reform that logic and equity demand … The billions of dollars this bill will place in the hands of the consumer and our businessmen will have both immediate and permanent benefits to our economy. Every dollar released from taxation that is spent or invested will help create a new job and a new salary. And these new jobs and new salaries can create other jobs and other salaries and more customers and more growth for an expanding American economy.” – John F. Kennedy, Aug. 13, 1962, radio and television report on the state of the national economy |
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Originally Posted by tomder55
There is a rate of taxation that meets our obligation... We're BELOW that now... If government is too big, let's cut it, instead of starving it. We don't want to leave WHERE to cut to the bureaucrats, do we?? Nahhhh.. We want to TELL them where to cut.. But, the cost of government and how we pay for it, ISN'T what my earlier post was directed at.. Although the deficit IS important, like D1ck Cheney, I believe deficits don't matter. At least they don't matter in the SHORT run, as long as there's a plan to pay it back. My post above meant that when there's HIGH unemployment and industry ISN'T spending, there's only ONE entity left to spend, and when they DO, as we did at the beginning of WW II, economy's RECOVER. We're no different... The stim kept us afloat for a couple years, and then it ran out. It wasn't big enough, and NONE of it should have been in the form of tax cuts, which we did to please the Republicans... Now, we're bouncing along the bottom and nobody is doing ANYTHING... The time to pay back the deficit is when the economy is rip roaring. We HAD a time like that during George W. Bush's administration... What he did instead, is create an even larger deficit... excon |
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If government is too big, let's cut it
My point is that we have almost the highest cap gains taxes in the free world . Stimulus spending ;cheap money policies are what is holding the economy back (along with uncertainty ).. |
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Originally Posted by tomder55
Cheap money holding BACK progress?? That's exactly backwards... Oh, yeah... There's that "uncertainty" word again... From a businessman's point of view, if I DON'T invest into an opportunity that presents itself, because I'm "uncertain", then my competitors, who AREN'T uncertain, will, and I'm Out of business... The marketplace doesn't offer SECOND chances. I thought you right wingers understood how business works.. No, huh? Besides, as a businessman, there's NEVER been certainty out there. The ONLY certainty I've EVER experienced in business, is that there's NO certainty... People who WANT certainty before they invest, should keep their jobs a Coca Cola. Uncertainty, is a POLITICAL word invented to pry MORE tax breaks out of the middle class and the poor... excon |
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Draining resources from the private sector to expand the public sector isn't a good model, but that's your guy's vision. He could learn some math from Oklahoma where I am today.
Oklahoma model wins in clash of economic visions |
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Ex as a business man do you not budget ? Maybe not ; but across the country in the 4th qtr . Businesses are now budgetting for the entire fiscal year. I'm not making this up . I submit my budget for my dept this time of year too. I can tell you for a fact that many companies like mine are in hiring freezes right now due to the uncertainly you scoff at . Now maybe you are in a unique business that bucks the national trend . But business leaders around the country are saying the same thing about the so called 'Taxmageddon' or "fiscal cliff" .You can look it up if you don't believe me .There are thousands of web sites with advice for businesses on how to prepare for it . Not only are business people and business associations saying it ,but so is the Fed ,the CBO ,and the IMF .
Failure to extend current tax rates across the board will increase taxes on small businesses by $4.6 trillion over 10 year. On top of that ,the regulations coming from Dodd-Frank and Obamacare are still up in the air . There are many more coming unless they are repealed . A cheap dollar in theory keeps interest rates low and money fluid . Is that happening ? And why not ? Like it or not ,it's that uncertainty thingy.But let's look at the record . Has all the Fed's easing had any impact on the economy ? We are very lucky it hasn't resulted in Weimar like inflation. Volcker kept the dollar strong even in the face of an economic downturn ;and that helped lead to a strong extended recovery. |
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Originally Posted by tomder55
I don't doubt that business "leaders" are saying that.. What I doubt is whether they're leaders at all. They sound like caretakers to me. The fundamentals of my business are no different than it is for LARGE ones... The difference is, I'm NOT a caretaker. I can't afford to be.. My competitors are viscous. If I don't move when the market is RIGHT, I'm DONE. I operate on a thin edge. I don't have the luxury of TIME to consider my decisions... And, EVEN if I did, UNCERTAINTY wouldn't be one of the factors that drives my decisions.. In fact, I laugh at the thought of not investing because of "uncertainty"... Uncertainty is what an entrepreneur BANKS on. If it was so certain, EVERYBODY would be an entrepreneur. If it was so certain, there wouldn't be any money to be made.. It's the uncertainty that makes your payday BIG. It's NOT like driving a truck for Coca Cola... The people you're citing are NOT citing realistic business practices... It's from the MOON business stuff.. NOBODY who wants to MAKE money can DO what they say they're doing... You know it too. The stuff I'm telling you DOESN'T sound like it's coming from the moon, does it?? The ONLY reason a businessman would say that is POLITICAL... excon |
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Don't blame Obama for this crap, blame the congress for not compromising a grand deal, and then not reaching consensus on the sequester. That's what happens when you have gridlock because you oppose everything the president proposes because the entire republican party from day one was out to make sure he got booted in 2012,soyou could rob the middle class some more.
And this uncertainty BS from business is an excuse to sit and wait for the repubs to deliver them more loot without working for it. All this uncertainty hasn't stopped CEO's from cashing in, or donating to their local politicians at all. You guys are really scared of all those government contracts being canceled aren't you. And sorry speech, they didn't do it on their own!! Oklahoma Recovery & Reinvestment - Home Stimulus articles from NewsOK and The Oklahoman | Newsok.com Oklahoma stimulus allocations - Sunshine Review Another example of you guys trying to take credit away from a president by LYING!! |
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Back to arithmetic. Durable goods orders fell 13.2 percent in August, the lowest in 4 years. Nondefense new orders for capital goods in August decreased 24.3 percent. Unfilled orders dropped, inventories rose. Yep, Obama has this economy roaring back to life.
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Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Wow... It's either one or the other with you guys, isn't it? He gave a speech in Cairo - you think he SOLVED the Mid East crisis.. When you find out he didn't, he's the worst man around.. When he was elected, you thought racism was over... When you found out it wasn't, Obama is a bad man... Now, that he's got the economy TURNED around, you think we should be fully employed and buying bling again... When you find out that a turnaround doesn't mean that, Obama is a socialist... But, NONE of that matters... No president has been reelected with unemployment above 8%. It SHOULDN'T happen. But it's going to. I don't think Obama is going to WIN this election.. I think Romney is going to LOSE it. excon |
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There you go again. I don't think Obama has solved anything. In fact, it's only going to get worse.
The IRS has gone rogue Time for Obama to come clean about his arithmetic. |
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By early January 2010, Democrats were trying to iron out a compromise between the House and Senate bills that could clear both chambers. On January 11, eleven House Democrats from the Texas delegation sent a letter to President Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D. Calif.), and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D. Md.). They demanded “a single, national health insurance exchange, as adopted by the House,” rather than the Senate bill's “weak, state-based health insurance exchanges.” The Senate bill “relies” on states to implement exchanges, they warned, even though “a number of states opposed to health reform have already expressed an interest in obstruction.”
SEE NOTE UNDER MAP. Reds states are actually using federal money for implementig exchanges to hire lawyers to fight the ACA. http://doughertyinsurance.com/2011/0...nce-exchanges/
State officials fear that taking even one dollar of the money would run the risk of the federal government running health care in Oklahoma.
Its like Ex points out, its NOT a solution, it's the structure for a solution to be found. OOOOPS have to use that word again, it's the beginning of a PROCESS of finding what works, and what doesn't. Unlike you guys who make laws and say it's a solution with no consideration for PROCESS, we think about the HOW of solving THE real problem. |
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