[tomder55]

Oh so he knows something then, like when to get out?

Yeah right... today is the last day of the "surge " in Afghanistan and Sec Defense Panetta called it a success.

[smoothy]

yeah right ... today is the last day of the "surge " in Afghanistan and Sec Defense Panetta called it a success.

Particualrly since MORE people have died in the last three years under Obamas watch

[paraclete]

Yes Afghanistan was successful war for the Taliban, they are undefeated by the greatest power on Earth, two down, who's next

[smoothy]

Yes Afghanistan was successful war for the Taliban, they are unfeated by the greatest power on Earth, two down, who's next

Problem is certain political types have never learned their lessons from Vietnam... if you go into a fight with one or both arms tied behind your back... and you opponent doesn't... you are going to lose. Yet they make many of the same mistakes in Afghanistan... measured response is a code word for we don't want to win.

We didn't win WW2 using that tactic.

[paraclete]

Which part of WW2 are you speaking of. In Europe you were fighting a conventional enemy, not guerilla forces and it took the combined strength of armies numbering millions

In the Pacific you virtually had to dig the enemy out at great cost and you lost your patience and used weapons of annilhation

Using weapons of annilhation in Afghanistan wouldn't kill many, just covert the place into more of a wasteland than it already is, and you don't have the option of overwhelming numbers. There is one strategy, subdue Pakistan and you win in Afghanistan. Pakistan has shown itself to be a fair weather friend and may in fact be prosecuting the war

[smoothy]

which part of WW2 are you speaking of. In Europe you were fighting a conventional enemy, not guerilla forces and it took the combined strength of armies numbering millions

In the Pacific you virtually had to dig the enemy out at great cost and you lost your patience and used weapons of annilhation

Using weapons of annilhation in Afghanistan wouldn't kill many, just covert the place into more of a wasteland than it already is, and you don't have the option of overwelming numbers. There is one strategy, subdue Pakistan and you win in Afghanistan. Pakistan has shown itself to be a fair weather friend and may infact be prosecuting the war

Carpet bombing of cities might be frowned upon by the same people the believe in measured response... but it beat the Germans. And they WERE a formidable foe. Eventually they just didn't have enough men to fight... and had resorted to the very young and very old... in the end.

Put combat troops in a city... the city becomes fair game... stay behind and you are considered a combatant...

We did what we had to do... and that Included in Japan... they were warned enough times and had plenty of chances to surrender.

We did what we had to do... we would have beat them conventionally we were well on our way to do it... but it would have cost many more lives to do it. Actually far fewer died on BOTH sides because We DID use the bomb... than if we had continued conventionally.

I'm glad we did, I'm proud we did...

I had a great Uncle die during the Bataan Death March. I also had another uncle carried off Omaha Beach on D-Day with every bone in his body broken from a German artillery shell. I had a number of relatives in every war the last 100 years, including Afghanistan and Iraq.

I myself provided com support to the entire region during Desert Shield AND Desert Storm... yes I saw more than most ground commanders were privy to. Because I saw what many of them were being told to do and not just one of them before they even got their orders, daily. The work I did had me that close to everything. It didn't start there either and it didn't end there. See how I can comment on the BS you see on TV that's called news... and why I have zero respect for CNN... I saw it before they reported on it... or more like... told their version of what happened vs, what really happened.

And I've got a nearly 30 year history of seeing things before AND after the journalists get a hold of it and distort it.

I agree... Pakistan has been proven to be unworthy of trust.

[paraclete]

You have said all that to say this

I agree...Pakistan has been proven to be unworthy of trust.

I think you let them off too lightly, I couldn't help laughing when local television screened Rules of Engagement while the Pakistanis are beseigning the american embassy, I couldn't help wondering beyond the opportunistic programming whether it wasn't both pathetic and prophetic

[smoothy]

You have said all that to say this



I think you let them off too lightly, I couldn't help laughing when local television screened Rules of Engagement while the Pakistanis are beseigning the american embassy, I couldn't help wondering beyond the opportunistic progrgramming whether it wasn't both pathetic and prophetic

I don't see unfiltered info on every world event... and I haven't on this one... so I use an educated guess from what I have seen and who distorted it how to guess what might be closer to the truth in those cases I haven't... so I have no doubts reality is somewhat different that you are seeing from any news agency... colored by whatever slant would put their favored politicians in a better light.

I also know it happens in EVERY other country as well... and in most cases is skewed even worse by other countries news services.

Objective journalism is not only dead, its extinct... they are all run by Partisan Editors with political agendas to push.

[paraclete]

Smoothy I have a particular interest in Pakistan, besides we get Al Jazzera here so we get more than one perspective. Things have been very bad there, they seem to have a very virilent form of islamism spilling into the political arena. No doubt the violence is orchestrated. The protests are more about american presence in the region than they are about a rediculously crude film

[talaniman]

Tribal law rules and a president is no more than a mayor to the city in which he lives in some nations. Yes we get Al Jazeera here too, and nothing has changed the way those nations/tribes live and think. It is what it is.

[paraclete]

Yes nutcase central

[speechlesstx]

Tribal law rules and a president is no more than a mayor to the city in which he lives in some nations. Yes we get Al Jazeera here too, and nothing has changed the way those nations/tribes live and think. It is what it is.

It is what it is?? I remember the sheer horror over the impending Bush theocracy and the mythical "Dominionist" plot of 2011. A widespread Islamist eruption where people are actually dying, a real war on women is being waged and a battle for global domination under Sharia law? It is what it is...

Hey, as long as it's over there, right?

[paraclete]

You are absolutely right speech, we can't have freedom for everyone now can we? Fact is we have got to stop being the thought police no matter how wrong we think it is. Someoneelse's culture is their culture and as long as they don't impose it on us, we shouldn't impose ours on them. It takes a long time to change things and we have to accept that.

In some of these places people are centuries apart from us. England has a civil war four hundred years ago, The US two hundred years ago but some of these places have just reached that stage now

[speechlesstx]

Hey, if Muslims want to whack each other perpetually then maybe they'll eliminate the problem themselves, but I happen to believe a child should eat and women shouldn't be treated as property. Still waiting for libs to catch up with us on that instead of wasting their time fretting over "extremist" Republicans.

[excon]

but I happen to believe a child should eat and women shouldn't be treated as property. Still waiting for libs to catch up with us on that

Hello Steve:

Oh, I agree with you, and I'm a lib. The only difference is that I don't think we should start WARS over it... It's a great IDEA to make the world over in our image. It's just not doable.

excon

[tomder55]

3 words for you that has replaced all our policies starting with the Obama Adm...
"Responsibility TO Protect " . They used it in Libya ;and they will use it in Syria.

[excon]

Hello again,

I entered this thread late because I was trying to figure out what the fuss was all about. I STILL don't know.. Yes, the Middle East erupted again. What?? That's NEW? That's Obama's fault? Yes, he miscast a terrorist attack. He should have done it sooner?

Are you saying that he's SOFT on terrorism?? What ARE you saying?

excon

[speechlesstx]

The whole point of this thread is the Obama administration, the guy who promised unprecedented transparency has once again lied through their teeth to the American people, people keep dying because of their incompetence, incoherent foreign policy and total lack of leadership and they need to be finally held accountable. You guys won't do it.

[excon]

You guys won't do it.

Hello again, Steve:

Will this do it for you? It was a terrorist attack. He should have KNOWN sooner. He's a bad man...

excon

[speechlesstx]

LOL, no.