[talaniman]

And again, my daughter asked to be abused for years? What the hell are you people not getting here?

I get what you are saying. Empathy goes a long way, and we all would have been hurt by such an experience. Calm down guy, you are hardly the first father to be devastated by the mistakes of a child, and I have much empathy for you. I get that, completely, but please expand your empathy to the many other victims and feel their pain and help them with their choices, and recognize their need to heal as well. Not subject them to more abuse, and being victimized in the name of helping them.

Love and support cannot come in the form of control. Nor guided by FEAR, or guilt.

Originally Posted by NeedKarma
It's no ones fault but the perp's but we can't equal domestic abuse to rape.

Sure you can, as often domestic abuse is facillitated by sex without consent. It's a control tool by the perpetrators that blurrs the lines of love, and bad behavior.

[NeedKarma]

Well, unless as part of the domestic abuse, the daughter was raped by her husband. You can still be raped by your spouse.

Agreed.

[speechlesstx]

No one said she deserved it. Its just not the topic of the thread.

Since it was ex who started this and asked what I would say (I am the Steve he's talking about), you'll just have to deal the direction I took it. Again, the guy said "no, no, no" he wasn't equating having a child out of wedlock with rape, but speaking as a father it was similar.

I thought it was pretty simple, as a dad he feels someone violated his daughter... I can relate.

I can't imagine what you are going through. But you initially didn't mention the abuse.

I'm sorry, I thought "I'm sure dad felt violated, just as I feel violated by the scumbag that gave my daughter HIV" was explanatory enough.

Yes, that is a big problem. Not what we were discussing, but a huge problem that again involves violence upon women. If your daughter was pregnant due to this domestic violence, I would support her right to decide what to do about it.

So ol' scumbag, who's controlling her in every other area of her life doesn't want the kid. She doesn't want to abort it because it's a child, maybe something good can come out of this otherwise hell on earth. Now what?

As for HIV, it's a separate issue. Albeit, terrible still.
You are obivously too angry to think clearly, if you think anyone on here has suggested she deserved it!

BS, you, Wondergirl and ex implied she deserved it because of her "assumed" willingness. Only now are you backtracking. I think plenty clearly.

[speechlesstx]

It's no ones fault but the perp's but we can't equal domestic abuse to rape.

Ask the victim.

[Wondergirl]

BS, you, Wondergirl and ex implied she deserved it because of her "assumed" willingness. Only now are you backtracking. I think plenty clearly.

No, I never thought she deserved it, but wondered why she felt like she did and put up with it.

[NeedKarma]

I'm sorry, I thought "I'm sure dad felt violated, just as I feel violated by the scumbag that gave my daughter HIV" was explanatory enough.

Well no, since one sexual session could get one infected.

[speechlesstx]

I get what you are saying. Empathy goes a long way, and we all would have been hurt by such an experience. Calm down guy, you are hardly the first father to be devastated by the mistakes of a child, and I have much empathy for you.

Thank you, and that's all I was saying about this other guy, I know how he feels as a dad. He's not waging a war on women, he said as a father it hurts.

I get that, completely, but please expand your empathy to the many other victims and feel their pain and help them with their choices, and recognize their need to heal as well. Not subject them to more abuse, and being victimized in the name of helping them.

Come on Tal, part of the reason I even post about my daughter is to show I've been there, done that. Of course I have empathy for others, do you think we condemn women for having abortions? Do you really think we don't care about what women are going through?

Love and support cannot come in the form of control. Nor guided by FEAR, or guilt.

Yep, so stop this phony war on women narrative.

[NeedKarma]

do you think we condemn women for having abortions?

Why don't you? They are the ones you should be targeting.

[Magpie95]

I'm sorry, I thought "I'm sure dad felt violated, [B][I]just as I feel violated by the scumbag that gave my daughter HIV[B][I]" was explanatory enough.

Not really. I didn't know how she had gotten HIV. Just that it was from a scumbag. I wouldn't have assumed it was domestic violence.

So ol' scumbag, who's controlling her in every other area of her life doesn't want the kid. She doesn't want to abort it because it's a child, maybe something good can come out of this otherwise hell on earth. Now what?

Sure. If that is her choice. I support that. I am sure it would be difficult no matter what she decided. The point is, it would be her choice to do so.

BS, you, Wondergirl and ex implied she deserved it because of her "assumed" willingness. Only now are you backtracking. I think plenty clearly.

Backtracking? No one said she deserved it. Everyone was asking if it was willing or not.

I realize this is a personal subject for you. I am just wondering if a politician has stated something that down plays the severity of domestic violence to the level of premarital sex? I don't recall one myself.

[speechlesstx]

Why don't you? They are the ones you should be targeting.

Ah, so Tal says we should have empathy and you say we should be harassing them. You people are confusing.

[NeedKarma]

Ah, so Tal says we should have empathy and you say we should be harassing them. You people are confusing.

Not confusing at all:
- the pro-choice people have empathy and so allow the women to make the choice
- the anti-abortion people for some reason target the policy/law, not the women who get the abortions

I ask: why aren't you targeting the actual people doing the act you want to ban?

[Magpie95]

Ah, so Tal says we should have empathy and you say we should be harassing them. You people are confusing.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Empathy for them or not, as long as the decision is theirs alone.

[speechlesstx]

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Empathy for them or not, as long as the decision is theirs alone.

So the dad never has a say?

[talaniman]

QUOTE by speechlesstx;Thank you, and that's all I was saying about this other guy, I know how he feels as a dad. He's not waging a war on women, he said as a father it hurts.

He supports legislation to drastically curtail a woman's choice through proper education. I feel his pain but do not accept his judgment as to best help woman, or children.

Come on Tal, part of the reason I even post about my daughter is to show I've been there, done that. Of course I have empathy for others, do you think we condemn women for having abortions? Do you really think we don't care about what women are going through?

So your empathy is what motivates you to take away their ability to chose through proper education? Can't agree with that one either since that's what a woman wants. You have empathy, but no ears, or refuse to listen. Educated females make better choices when they have more options and don't have to wait for social services to explain things when they can see a doctor. Or live in fear of abuse and subjigation. Or make a confusing time of their lives a legal hell!

Yep, so stop this phony war on women narrative.

Its not phony when you make laws that have dire consequences on woman and children or subjugate them to what YOU think is right and proper without their input.

[speechlesstx]

Not confusing at all:
- the pro-choice people have empathy and so allow the women to make the choice
- the anti-abortion people for some reason target the policy/law, not the women who get the abortions

I ask: why aren't you targeting the actual people doing the act you want to ban?

Being a legal decision targeting the law is obvious. Unborn children deserve legal protection and even Roe granted that to an extent. As for targeting women having an abortion, well that's just downright mean. I'm not mean.

[talaniman]

So the dad never has a say?

He has a say, but NOT the final decision. Sorry that's part of the helpless feeling of being a dad! You can feel, but not force.

[Magpie95]

So the dad never has a say?

No, it isn't his body.

Obviously, good relationship tools would have us consider our partners' feelings and what they say with any subject that effects us. Frankly, couples don't discuss having kids enough before they have them in most cases. The government does not need to regulate relationships to this degree.

[speechlesstx]

He supports legislation to drastically curtail a woman's choice through proper education. I feel his pain but do not accept his judgment as to best help woman, or children.

He doesn't equate rape with an out of wedlock birth, which is the phony part of the narrative ex promoted.

So your empathy is what motivates you to take away their ability to chose through proper education? Can't agree with that one either since that's what a woman wants.

What is "proper education?"

You have empathy, but no ears, or refuse to listen. Educated females make better choices when they have more options and don't have to wait for social services to explain things when they can see a doctor. Or live in fear of abuse and subjigation. Or make a confusing time of their lives a legal hell!

Dude, who do you think is that ear after the abortion she came to regret? Who do you think helped her overcome the guilt and shame she silently endured for years, Planned Parenthood?

Its not phony when you make laws that have dire consequences on woman and children or subjugate them to what YOU think is right and proper without their input.

I didn't want Obamacare forced on me, and he had plenty of our input. He chose to willfully ignore the will of the people.

[speechlesstx]

No, it isn't his body.

It's his child.

[NeedKarma]

I didn't want Obamacare forced on me,

How has it changed your life?