[excon]

and still does not address the solvency issue. .

Hello again, tom:

Eventually the solvency issue will be dealt with by instituting single payer.. Then we'll be able to afford EVERYTHING in our government spending wishlist.. That INCLUDES a few big aircraft carriers, if that'll make you happy.

The PROBLEM is, you wingers are going to FORCE us over the fiscal cliff FIRST, with your outdated medical delivery system... Then, and ONLY then can we get in line with the REST of the world...

Which brings me to my next thought. What I don't understand, is why you believe that the ENTIRE civilized world is BACKWARDS on this issue, when the NUMBERS prove otherwise.. I thought you guys LIKED numbers... No, huh?

excon

[speechlesstx]

Let's see, half of Europe just went over the cliff and you want to follow them. No, that won't make me happy.

We need to head the opposite direction and restore MORE of our liberties and individuality and make this country the great, exceptional nation it once was before progressives ruined it. As opposed to say, turning this country into Greece.

[tomder55]

I don't know... maybe the tort laws are different in the rest of the civilized world . Harder to sue the government for malepractice ? Maybe what I read about the horrors of the delivery systems for the rest of the world is true . Maybe the rest of the world is good for the very basic services ;but the more affluent come here when there is specialty care required . Maybe providers aren't paid a fair pay for their services elsewhere and that is why we get so many quality doctors emigrating here . Maybe medicines and medical devices available here are rare other places.. Maybe in some of these systems there are clever ways to pay for premium services ;like the membership fees in Israeli clinics to guarantee a call within the day and a visit within 2 days with the Doc of your choice.
I'm sure there are many other reasons I haven't thought of ;and I'm sure there is room for improvements in our system. I don't buy into the proposition that central ,top down ,socialized medicine is the answer. We have a fundamental disagreement .

[talaniman]

Its not socialized medicine since every state has options and waivers and funding to implement a system tailored for their own needs. As do incentives for hospitals to address their own models and delivery systems. Aca allows somuch latitude that even a moron can make some basic adjustsments and expand and streamline through technology.

Quietly as its kept MANY govenors and providers have embraced and partnered with the federal government, despite the hollering of some because the biggest challenge it seems is in manning the workers for that expansion. Not only scholastically, but on the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
LOL, talk about lies, Obama took money from medicare, but from the supply side, not the benefits,

Speech;

Please feel free to document whatever the heck it is you're trying to say here.

>sigh< I gave you the link to the ACA bill it self which cuts administrative costs from providers and insurance companies (Supply side, not benefits to particapants), and closes the donut hole which Ryan voted for in the Bush administration (which is part of the deficit we now worry about, along with wars and defense contracts), Part D (prescptions for seniors currently under medicare), which unless you KNOW someone struggling with part D,
Was expense for both government and seniors. Basically that where the money went.

There is a big difference, though, in the thrust of the reductions between Ryan and Obama's plans. ObamaCare specifically calls for no reductions in benefits (though, again, if you squeeze providers, benefits will be harder to receive) because it's essentially a defined benefit plan. Ryan calls for a defined contribution plan. And under Ryan's scenario, there's a good bet that the contribution won't be enough to cover health expenses that ObamaCare seeks to guarantee.

Read more here: Obama's $700 billion Medicare-cut problem | Naked Politics

Quote:

T

but Romney does the same thing, but gives it to rich guys. He may not throw granny under the bus, but her grandkids and kids are toast. NOBODY want the vouchers, and the system is SOLVENT to 2024.

Speech
Or in other words, it goes INSOLVENT in 12 years, but that's OK, I understand progressives are mathematically challenged.

Stop hollering and get busy, we have 12 years to get a good plan between us don't we? Don't panic now!

Quote: T
We know the reason for all the right wing cuts, its to support more corporate welfare, so they can hide more money and open sweat shops overseas. I doubt seriously that the country goes along with the right wing plans.

Speech
You really need another line of attack, this one's beyond stale. Americans want jobs, Obama just gives us more stagnation and national debt.

Bridges, roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, firefighters, nurses, infrastructure, power grids! You know that jobs bill you guys fillibustered and holler about. IMMEDIATE jobs. Plenty of work, Lazy a$$ congress. Right wing obstruction and BS!!

Need a link for that too?

[speechlesstx]

Bridges, roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, firefighters, nurses, infrastructure, power grids! You know that jobs bill you guys fillibustered and holler about. IMMEDIATE jobs. Plenty of work, Lazy a$$ congress. Right wing obstruction and BS!!!

Need a link for that too?

Same old, same old, government is going to create all those jobs blah, blah, blah. How many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job? Hey, let's just throw a few billion more of your favorite corporate welfare into those awesome green companies for starters.

[Wondergirl]

Same old, same old, government is going to create all those jobs blah, blah, blah. How many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job?

How do you think Romney will create jobs then? Bring all the help-desk jobs back from India?

[talaniman]

The stimulus got the states through, and we do see jobs being created by the ones that made good use of the tax cuts in them which still exists, as well as the building projects, especially in TEXAS!!

Texas Recovery: On the Money, Texas Stimulus in Plain English

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ryan voted for it!

[speechlesstx]

The stimulus got the states thru, and we do see jobs being created by the ones that made good use of the tax cuts in them which still exists, as well as the the building projects, especially in TEXAS!!!

Texas Recovery: On the Money, Texas Stimulus in Plain English

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ryan voted for it!

It's already been acknowledged that Ryan voted for it, that isn't the question. The question is how many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job?

[speechlesstx]

How do you think Romney will create jobs then? Bring all the help-desk jobs back from India?

For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.

[Wondergirl]

For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.

And that will help how?

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by speechlesstx
For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.

Hey is that a right wing straw argument? Or an audition for Fox News anchor? I can't tell!

[excon]

Hello again,

As the campaign progresses, it appears that, like McCain before him, he chose an emergency veep to shore him up. Also, like Palin before him, Ryan wasn't vetted. Oh, they looked at his tax returns, but they DIDN'T look at how the COMBO of Romney and Ryan would WORK together... To me, it's looking like it's not going to work at all.. I heard he wanted a veep who WOULDN'T outshine him.. If so, he picked the WRONG guy.

For starters, it looks like it's RYAN'S campaign and Romney is the veep. Plus, I hear there's rumblings amongst the GOP that choosing Ryan is a direct path to LOSING...

excon

[tomder55]

Yeah there are some establishment Repubics writing anonymously in Huffpo belly aching . I think Ryan is a great addition to the ticket. With Ryan,there is finally someone who can articulate the philosophical differences who believes what he's saying . Without Ryan ;the only case being made was that Romeny would be a better manager of the Leviathan that we've created . We now have someone who can credibly argue an alternative approach.

As far as Romney's position on jobs and the economy ;his economic experts published a white paper recently (bet you didn't know that... the compliant press did not deem it relevent).

White Paper Of Romney's Tax Reform - Misunderstood Finance


Romney faults the slow recovery on the President and the 2008-2010 Congress for their ineffectual policies to steer the nation out of recession. The President and Pelosi ,Reid et al focused on short turn gimmick stimulus programs and green energy initiatives ,instead of structural corrections . They also squandered a year forcing Obamacare on the nation .
Romney's position paper offers 4 fundamental pillars of reform that he believes will correct the structural flaws of the economy.

[excon]

Romney's position paper offers 4 fundamental pillars of reform that he believes will correct the structural flaws of the economy.

Hello again, tom:

You got a white paper... I got Reagan's budget director, David Stockman.

In short, Mr. Ryan’s plan is devoid of credible math or hard policy choices. And it couldn’t pass even if Republicans were to take the presidency and both houses of Congress. Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex, social insurance or the nation’s fiscal calamity and no plan to revive capitalist prosperity — just empty sermons.

Excon

[tomder55]

Yeah I know that Stockman and Bruce Bartlett have become some of the libs favorite Reagonites . I wonder what the Slimes and the libs would say about his idea of jacking up the interest rates that feed their deficit spending ;or ending QE which has pumped fake money into the stimulus ?

If he is a critic of Republic deficits he must love the Obots. I know Stockman's complaint. His position about Romney and Ryan is that they aren't right wing enough. But ;for the left ,and enemy of my enemy is a friend. So Stockman get's his place on the Slimes editorial pages.

[talaniman]

Wonder what Romney paid for that ad! Or did Rove pay for it? Hard to tell.

[tomder55]

Are you talking about the white paper?. it is a position paper by the Romney campaign.

[talaniman]

No wonder it sounded so familiar. I saw the same stuff in a western once. After the crooks robbed the bank, they told the posse "they went thata way". Off goes the posse. Off goes the robbers... the other way!

[speechlesstx]

Hey is that a right wing straw argument?? Or an audition for Fox News anchor? I can't tell!

No sir, from Obama keeping their "boot on the throat of BP" to crucifying the first five guys they saw to instill terror in businesses, this administration has made no bones about their policy toward business.

[excon]

this administration has made no bones about their policy toward business.

Hello again, Steve:

That would be toward business that FOUL our wetlands, SOIL our beaches, KILL the fish, RUIN tourism, and then ACT like THEY'RE the victim.

What I would NEVER do, is apologize to BP for f**ing up the ocean, like that wimpy congressman, Joe Barton did. You probably think they're a victim too. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon