[peabody9]

My daughter wants to put her unborn child up for adoption. She is due in Dec. 2012. She realizes she cannot raise another baby. She cut off ties with the father. He is a veteran on disability, PTSD, is a big boozer, has quite a temper, is 31, no car, works under the table car detailing, smokes pot, and now has retained a top notch attorney seeking custody when the baby is born.
My daughter will not see her child given to him.
We are in PA. If she has the baby in NY will that make it harder for him to get custody?

[JudyKayTee]

My daughter wants to put her unborn child up for adoption. She is due in Dec. 2012. She realizes she cannot raise another baby. She cut off ties with the father. He is a veteran on disability, PTSD, is a big boozer, has quite a temper, is 31, no car, works under the table car detailing, smokes pot, and now has retained a top notch attorney seeking custody when the baby is born.
My daughter will not see her child given to him.
We are in PA. If she has the baby in NY will that make it harder for him to get custody?

In a word, no. If he's unfit in PA he's also unfit in NY. Her move will look just like the ploy it is, including walking across the State line to deliver the child.

I don't even see that he needs a top notch Attorney. Your daughter does not want to raise the child. She has said she is giving up her rights. The next person in line is the baby's father. She can't force him to relinquish custody in favor of adoption. ("she cannot raise another child ..." - ?)

This is another situation where he is described as "... a veteran on disability [which, by the way, I don't know is a bad thing - he served his Country and is somehow disabled. A lot of people didn't serve at all], PTSD [likewise, I'm assuming he served overseas), is a big boozer, has quite a temper, is 31, no car, works under the table car detailing, smokes pot... "

Was he these things when she was having sex with him and exposing her other children to him? If so she doesn't paint herself with a very clean brush, either.

But, no, if he's unfit, he's unfit. That doesn't mean he will lose any/all rights to the child. It might mean the child is placed in foster care after your daughter signs the paperwork and the father then attempts to straighten out and get supervised visitation, visitation and eventually custody.

[ScottGem]

The advantage here is that the child is unborn. This means your daughter can approach a reputable adoption agency to handle the adoption. Such an agency will handle the whole process of screening potential parents and finding the father unfit (if he indeed is).

[Synnen]

I would like to point out that if he gets "fit" by the time the child is born OR she can't PROVE he is unfit, he can not only stop an adoption but can file for full custody--leaving your daughter (who had sex with this paragon) paying child support.

[JudyKayTee]

I would like to point out that if he gets "fit" by the time the child is born OR she can't PROVE he is unfit, he can not only stop an adoption but can file for full custody--leaving your daughter (who had sex with this paragon) paying child support.

Bingo!

[peabody9]

In a word, no. If he's unfit in PA he's also unfit in NY. Her move will look just like the ploy it is, including walking across the State line to deliver the child.

I don't even see that he needs a top notch Attorney. Your daughter does not want to raise the child. She has said she is giving up her rights. The next person in line is the baby's father. She can't force him to relinquish custody in favor of adoption. ("she cannot raise another child ..." - ?)

This is another situation where he is described as "... a veteran on disability [which, by the way, I don't know is a bad thing - he served his Country and is somehow disabled. A lot of people didn't serve at all], PTSD [likewise, I'm assuming he served overseas), is a big boozer, has quite a temper, is 31, no car, works under the table car detailing, smokes pot ..."

Was he these things when she was having sex with him and exposing her other children to him? If so she doesn't paint herself with a very clean brush, either.

But, no, if he's unfit, he's unfit. That doesn't mean he will lose any/all rights to the child. It might mean the child is placed in foster care after your daughter signs the paperwork and the father then attempts to straighten out and get supervised visitation, visitation and eventually custody.

Thanks for your input.
My daughter is mentally challenged and has psychological problems and the only reason her 18 month old child is thriving is because she lives in our home with her siblings and my husband and I.
Both guys who are the fathers of her children, are extremely controlling and verbally abusive. This guy told her he couldn't get her pregnant, that the military shots made him sterile. He purposely impregnated her. Now we are in this terrible dilemma.
This new life deserves to be with a mother and father who are committed to each other. My daughter recognizes her limitations. This man doesn't recognize his.
I wasn't saying he was a disabled vet in a bad way, just to point out that he is on disability, yet works to hide his income. He has psychological problems, PTSD, along with anger problems. My daughter was sneaky in seeing him, while we babysat. Yes, she is culpable here, but when you have a person with limited intelligence being taken advantage of by a man who is 10 years older and a control freak who knew exactly what he was doing, it's very upsetting.
This new life deserves more.
I can see why some people flee when problems too large to handle arise.
Help.

[ScottGem]

I don't know how your daughter is evaluated. But if she can be evaluated as a juvenile mentality he can possibly be prosecuted for statutory rape.That would be one way to keep him from the child.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[JudyKayTee]

Thanks for your input.
My daughter is mentally challenged and has psychological problems and the only reason her 18 month old child is thriving is because she lives in our home with her siblings and my husband and I.
Both guys who are the fathers of her children, are extremely controlling and verbally abusive. This guy told her he couldn't get her pregnant, that the military shots made him sterile. He purposely impregnated her. Now we are in this terrible dilemma.
This new life deserves to be with a mother and father who are committed to each other. My daughter recognizes her limitations. This man doesn't recognize his.
I wasn't saying he was a disabled vet in a bad way, just to point out that he is on disability, yet works to hide his income. He has psychological problems, PTSD, along with anger problems. My daughter was sneaky in seeing him, while we babysat. Yes, she is culpable here, but when you have a person with limited intelligence being taken advantage of by a man who is 10 years older and a control freak who knew exactly what he was doing, it's very upsetting.
This new life deserves more.
I can see why some people flee when problems too large to handle arise.
Help.

Scott beat me to it - IF you can get an evaluation which PROVES her legally incompetent to make a decision to have sexual intercourse and he knew OR SHOULD HAVE known, then you can prosecute him. I worked one of these cases once. There is no question that the female was challenged. Two evaluations did not conclude that she was incapable of legally agreeing to sex. The fact that "he" discussed his inability to get her pregnant leads me to believe that she has a level of understanding which rules out the problem with consensual sex. It's worth a try. I also interviewed neighbors, friends, on behalf of the female. In the end there was not sufficient proof, no matter what angle we tried. I'm just trying to tell you how things work.

I would guess that if she's old enough to have one child she understands sex and pregnancy; she was sneaking out to see him so she's not confined or supervised at all times; she discussed pregnancy with "him." She may be somewhat challenged, and she may understand her limitations and he may not recognize his, but... as you said, she's aware enough to lie and be sneaky.

I do understand what you are saying, I truly do. You have, however, been given appropriate legal advice. The US is turning into a nation of grandparents raising children because the grandchildren's parents are too self centered or careless to raise them.

I agree that every child should have loving parents, two of them - in a perfect World. You are in a situation with limited choices - attempt to have the child adopted (with the adoptive parents aware of the limitations of both parents) and maybe the Social Services Agency will determine the father cannot father and he'll lose his say, but I highly doubt it; your daughter/you keep the child; your daughter gives up her rights and the father tries to get custody.

Here comes the very hard part - it's even hard for me to write this BUT if I were you my daughter would be on birth control, whatever the Doctor recommends, and if I had to I would pry her teeth apart and feed her "the pill" with her orange juice every morning. Honestly, I am NOT joking.

There would not be another pregnancy - if I had to stuff the pill into her and force her to use a backup method.

The really sad part of this for me is that I tried so very hard to have a biological child (I have 5 stepchildren), and I could never carry beyond the first few months. Stories like this make me all the sadder.

[peabody9]

Thank you, JudyKayTee. I greatly appreciate your advice. Your stepchildren are blessed.
My husband and I have already discussed future birth control for her.
The whole situation is a no win, and one I could have never imagined for my family.

[JudyKayTee]

Thank you, JudyKayTee. I greatly appreciate your advice. Your stepchildren are blessed.
My husband and I have already discussed future birth control for her.
The whole situation is a no win, and one I could have never imagined for my family.

Honestly, I hurt for you - and I also hurt for your daughter. She's been betrayed by this man she had feelings for, no matter what the situation is or was. I don't doubt he talked her into lying to you and sneaking out.

Legally, I just don't see a lot of options.

Is there a chance that he's all bluff and bluster and will back down rather than filing for custody?

What if your daughter has no contact with him (if she does), you have no contact, and he swings in the wind and wonders what's next? I always think that people who threaten do one thing well - threaten.

[peabody9]

I'm praying he's all talk. My daughter hasn't had contact with him in several weeks up until last week when he texted her asking how her appointment went. We advised her to block his number. We haven't had contact since he convinced her to move in with him for a week in March and he texted me "ha, ha, I won"... I did not respond, but knew then that she was under his spell, and because of her low self esteem, she fell for him, and couldn't hear the truth from us. It was at that time that he purposely got her pregnant as a control issue.
Yes, it takes two to tango, but with her damaged psyche, this calculating man is evil and has done irreparable harm.
Thank you.

[JudyKayTee]

I'm praying he's all talk. My daughter hasn't had contact with him in several weeks up until last week when he texted her asking how her appointment went. We advised her to block his number. We haven't had contact since he convinced her to move in with him for a week in March and he texted me "ha, ha, I won"... I did not respond, but knew then that she was under his spell, and because of her low self esteem, she fell for him, and couldn't hear the truth from us. It was at that time that he purposely got her pregnant as a control issue.
Yes, it takes two to tango, but with her damaged psyche, this calculating man is evil and has done irreparable harm.
Thank you.

And I believe he has. I'm not arguing the facts with you and understand your position in this BUT if "he" is going to argue from the other side - it appears that you have little influence and control over your daughter, you know she can be manipulative, she moved out of your house and into his, I am guessing she left her other child behind (with you) when she moved into his "house," it does not appear that she was on any type of birth control (or enforced birth control) even though there is another child, she has a disability. I believe a picture of a person incapable of raising a baby could be painted.

I would tred very carefully AND I would consult with an Attorney.

You have to have clear vision and not get tangled up in details that matter little in the bigger picture.

Totally aside - did she leave him, did he walk out on her? Do you have any type of custodial order over her because of her disability?

[peabody9]

When she moved into his apartment, we put the pressure on because we were concerned about our grandchild's safety. We were ready to call the attorney ourselves and report her as unstable. So she left him, but as you can imagine, this didn't sit well with the guy... ergo the pregnancy. She was on birth control, but didn't take it faithfully and believed his lies about his infertility.
You are right on about her manipulation. As I said previously, our granddaughter is only thriving because of her aunts, uncles and us, not her mother. Her mother, my daughter, is being pulled every step of the way, to be a better parent.
Yes, I see, we have to tread carefully.
We have no custodial order over her. She hides her issues quite well and gets by. If you met her you would think she's a sweet and shy girl of 17, not a very damaged manipulative 24 year old.

[JudyKayTee]

When she moved into his apartment, we put the pressure on because we were concerned about our grandchild's safety. We were ready to call the attorney ourselves and report her as unstable. So she left him, but as you can imagine, this didn't sit well with the guy.... ergo the pregnancy. She was on birth control, but didn't take it faithfully and believed his lies about his infertility.
You are right on about her manipulation. As I said previously, our granddaughter is only thriving because of her aunts, uncles and us, not her mother. Her mother, my daughter, is being pulled every step of the way, to be a better parent.
Yes, I see, we have to tread carefully.
We have no custodial order over her. She hides her issues quite well and gets by. If you met her you would think she's a sweet and shy girl of 17, not a very damaged manipulative 24 year old.

I can't imagine this scenario on a day-to-day basis. She should be more than grateful that she has you, but I'm sure she's not.

I would certainly run all of this past an Attorney. I have another concern and so I'm spinning in another direction.

If she would decide to go back with "him" or make some other bad decision do you have a legal means to keep her from taking her other child?

[peabody9]

I can't imagine this scenario on a day-to-day basis. She should be more than grateful that she has you, but I'm sure she's not.

I would certainly run all of this past an Attorney. I have another concern and so I'm spinning in another direction.

If she would decide to go back with "him" or make some other bad decision do you have a legal means to keep her from taking her other child?

The only thing we could do and have come to terms with doing, is to call our grandchild's father (who has a PFA against him, BTW) and have him get full custody, with us getting weekly grandparent visitation. It took a lot for my husband and me to come to this decision. The circumstances all around are very difficult.
Regarding this new life, we are gradually coming to terms with the realization that we will soon have another baby under our roof and dealing with the courts, the attorneys, the visitation rights of this man.
Life is not easy, but this is living pro-life, and we are trying to do what's best for all.

[JudyKayTee]

The only thing we could do and have come to terms with doing, is to call our grandchild's father (who has a PFA against him, BTW) and have him get full custody, with us getting weekly grandparent visitation. It took a lot for my husband and me to come to this decision. The circumstances all around are very difficult.
Regarding this new life, we are gradually coming to terms with the realization that we will soon have another baby under our roof and dealing with the courts, the attorneys, the visitation rights of this man.
Life is not easy, but this is living pro-life, and we are trying to do what's best for all.

I understand -

If I could drive down there (I'm in NY), snatch up the grandchild, the newborn, the mother and race back here, undetected, I'd do it BUT in a World with laws it's not possible.

I can't imagine the pain you are in. I really can't.