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Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

OK, well let me ask more specifically. Did you at least think TO YOURSELF that the guy was good or bad at kissing?

I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

She's with me after all this time, obviously I'm "good enough" to meet her standards in that area.

And is "good enough" good enough for you, or do you need to rock her world?

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And is "good enough" good enough for you, or do you need to rock her world?

I'd like to rock her world, IF IT IS POSSIBLE. That is the question I want the answer to.

Why should I not want to rock her world? Is mediocrity somehow a sexy and desirable trait nowadays?

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

Well, I have a few comments about that.

1. If she seemed to participate herself (move her lips, her body, respond to what I'm doing) I'd feel less need to ask her to tell me how it was. I assume you were reciprocal enough that the guy at least got the impression you enjoyed kissing him.

2. I've been lied to in the past by other women, who spent time telling me everything was "fine" then eventually, I found out from her friend she was afraid to tell me the truth. Then we broke up. Had I known, I could have tried to fix the problem.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

I know a LOT of people that just don't want to be alone, and put up with lousy kissing/sex/etc.

That's the reason for all this! Of course it could be mostly MY issues with self-esteem, but still. I have trouble believing someone who puts so little effort into making love and other intimate endeavors can possibly enjoy what she is doing or having done to her, unless she is just doing it as her "wifely duty" and really only wants the companionship, father to her kids, etc and couldn't care less about the physical part.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:03 AM

Wondergirl, you probably have no way of knowing, but is it more likely in your opinion that she:

A. Has had better sex with others but loves me so she puts up with it
B. Is having as good of sex as she ever can have or at least as good as she ever has

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

I know a LOT of people that just don't want to be alone, and put up with lousy kissing/sex/etc.

Or maybe having to continually rate a spouse's performance becomes wearing and puts one off the entire process.

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

Wondergirl, you probably have no way of knowing, but is it more likely in your opinion that she:

A. Has had better sex with others but loves me so she puts up with it
B. Is having as good of sex as she ever can have or at least as good as she ever has

What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Or maybe having to continually rate a spouse's performance becomes wearing and puts one off the entire process.

I haven't asked her "how was it" in a LONG time.

However, it was only about 4 sex sessions ago since that's about how much we've done it in the last 8 months.

I don't get it. If I am selfish and don't attempt to make things good for her, I'm a selfish jerk. If I do care, I annoy her and she is disinterested. It's like I can't win no matter what.
It basically sounds like you're telling me to be attentive and take care of her outside the bedroom and learn how her mind works, BUT, act as if I couldn't care less in the bedroom whether she enjoys herself, outside of just doing things the same way we always do.

On THIS VERY BOARD there are other posters with similar problems, being told their wives are probably not satisfied, and that they are just hopping on her and hopping off, and no wonder she doesn't want sex. My situation is that I want to do more but she doesn't seem interested in that!

Most situations like this reveal that the husband is inattentive outside the bedroom. Hence me trying your suggestions although I think I do better already than some guys do.

I seem to have trouble balancing the idea that men should be confident and self-assured with the idea of being sensitive to my wife's needs and feelings both inside the bedroom and out.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

No, because I get paid commission (plus a base). My paycheck reflects how I do. :)

To protect my identity, I won't give more detail, but it's finance oriented.

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

I haven't asked her "how was it" in a LONG time.

Maybe you already overplayed your hand in the past. Again, counseling for you and eventually for both of you might give you the solution.

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

No, because I get paid commission (plus a base). My paycheck reflects how I do. :)

So your job and your very livelihood and success are based on your good performance.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

It really sounds like you're just telling me to stop caring how it is for her and to take her word for it.

Do you have an opinion on my analysis of the word "fine" being used to describe how our sex life is for her?

She always says FINE. Never "good" or anything.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So your job and your very livelihood and success are based on your good performance.

Yes. And?

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

It really sounds like you're just telling me to stop caring how it is for her and to take her word for it.

Stop caring? Not at all. I asked you to find a counselor, but you indicated you don't have time for one. I asked you to read a book, but don't know if you called your library yet to find out if they own it and can hold it for you to pick up. I suggested you take a two-week break and concentrate on other parts of your relationship, but no report yet.

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

Yes. And?

Performance is very important to you.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Stop caring? Not at all. I asked you to find a counselor, but you indicated you don't have time for one. I asked you to read a book, but don't know if you called your library yet to find out if they own it and can hold it for you to pick up. I suggested you take a two-week break and concentrate on other parts of your relationship, but no report yet.

They have it and its on hold. I told you I was taking your advice. :)

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Performance is very important to you.

Yeah it is. But don't most jobs require you to perform well? It just seemed like an odd question.

OneDude79 · May 2, 2012, 11:30 AM

OK, to keep this from becoming 100 pages long and annoying you further than I already have, I'll try to consolidate my last few points for the day:

As far as me asking her how it was, a quick background on that - early in the relationship I apologized for climaxing so fast. She said "it's fine, really." For THAT question, "fine" is a reasonable answer, since it means "I'm not mad but sure, longer would be better".

Then, I said "well just making sure you're enjoying it as much as me" and she said "oh, it's fine, honey". She's only ever said "fine". That's why I have issue with the word. Maybe I have a hang-up on that word. I just know when it's used in this context it doesn't mean fine as in "fine dining" or "fine art". It means "acceptable" or "mediocre" or "not bad enough to complain about but not great either".

I'll have the book tonight. I do want to try counseling, but I still don't know when this counseling is supposed to happen. I cannot get time off during the day from work, it's just not feasible on a dependable basis. Childcare requirements and the schedules of my wife and I mean before/after work isn't going to cut it, either. I don't get off work until 7pm. How can I explain to her that I'm asking for a night off every week when SHE is far more stressed than I am, no matter what I help with around the house, since she is MOM and the baby is all about Mommy all the time, and sometimes she is the only one that can soothe him, etc. If I offer her one too, that helps some, but, I guess I can't justify within myself that I need it too. I KNOW she's more stressed than me! If I just straight tell her I'm seeing a relationship counselor, what's she going to think?

Wondergirl · May 2, 2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by OneDude79

Yeah it is. But don't most jobs require you to perform well? It just seemed like an odd question.

But in your job, how well you perform is vital to your income. As a librarian, I was lucky to get a raise once a year, and for the last five years before I retired, none of us got one because of the economy. There were no merit increases. As a counselor, my pay is not determined by my performance, and I don't ask clients, "How am I doing?" I find out my worth in how they relate to me and how they conduct their lives.