[Alty]

This post is very hard for me to write, and I want to make a few things clear before you read it. First, I love my husband more than anything. He’s my best friend, my love, my soul mate. Also, I’m not some naïve 20 something that got married to the first guy that smiled at me the right way and made my heart skip a beat. We’ve been together for over 22 years, and we’ll be together for life, not matter what. The fact is, we love each other.

But….and yes, there’s a but, right now we’re having a few issues. Our major issues are sexual, but those issues are stemming from other issues in our home. You’re going to get my side of the story, and I’m sure if you asked my husband, you’d get a totally different point of view. I’m going to do my best to be fair to both of us, and express both sides the best way I can. But, I am writing this from my point of view, and I will tell you that I am being completely honest about everything, but, my feelings about this are entirely my own.

We haven’t been having sex on a regular basis. I’ll tell you why, from my perspective. The first thing you should know is that my husband works split shift. That means that he works two week days (7am – 4pm) and two weeks nights (4pm – 12pm). You should also know that my husband is a night owl. He simply can’t go to bed at a decent hour. In fact, most nights (mornings) he’s up until at least 5am, even when he’s working the day shift. Last thing you should know is that he’s depressed, financially stressed, which is causing the depression, and that this is a major issue. Not something we fight about, because we rarely fight, but something we’re both worried about.

When my husband works days he gets up, goes to work, comes home, naps until dinner (which I cook), then gets up to eat, and spends the rest of the evening watching TV. When he’s on nights he sleeps until right before his shift starts, goes to work, comes home, watches TV and then goes to sleep. When he’s at home he’s either sleeping, eating, or watching TV. In fact, if you ask my kids to talk to daddy, they first check our bedroom to see if he’s sleeping, then the garage (where he has a TV, and where he watches TV, not even in the house), and if he’s not in one of those two places, they assume he’s at work. That’s how bad this has become.

I also work. I work 6 hours a day 5 days a week (That way I can drive the kids to school before work and pick them up after, and they never know I’m gone). My husband works 8 hours a day five days a week. The difference is, I don’t only work for the job I’m paid to work. I take care of everything in the home, with the kids, the pets, cleaning, etc. etc. If you asked my husband what grade his children are in, he would be hard pressed to give you an answer. Not that he’s a bad father, he just doesn’t deal with the every day. He gets to have fun with them, when he’s not sleeping, watching TV, or working. I’m the one that has to deal with the every day stuff.

The thing is, it’s having its effect. We haven’t been having sex regularly. Part of this is his schedule. I’m not home during the day when he works nights. I’m working. I go to bed at 11pm at night because I have to get up early to get the kids ready, and get myself ready for work. So, when he’s on nights for the 2 weeks every month, I don’t see him at all, nor do the kids. So, for half the month, at least during the work week, we’re not having sex. You can’t have sex when you don’t even see each other.

The thing is, we’re not having sex on a regular basis when he’s on days either. The main reason is that I’m exhausted. I do it all. Once I’m done with my day, and all it involves, I’m too tired, and frankly, too mad that he doesn’t pitch in at all, to feel like having sex.

I’m not stupid. I know that communication is the key. I’ve spouted that on this site too many times to count. Trust me, I’ve talked to him about this. The problem is, we’re both passive aggressive. I say “If you helped out I’d be in the mood for sex”. He says, “If you gave me sex, I’d help out more”. So you see, we’re at a standstill.

The fact is, I’ve given up before. I’ve given him sex in hopes that he’ll actually start pitching in. It didn’t work. He continued what he was doing. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you. In other words, I’m not putting out until he starts pulling his weight, and he’s not going to pull his weight until I put out. I backed down before, and it didn’t work. He won’t back down, that much is clear. It’s gotten to the point where I’ve suggested counseling. He doesn’t think it’s that big an issue, and I think it’s mainly because he thinks he’ll win. Right now I don’t think anyone’s winning. He won’t back down, but still requests sex every day, and even though he’s been told why I’m not in the mood (I’ve told him exactly what I’ve told you all here), he gets upset because he’s not getting what he wants. I told him what to do! I told him why I say no! I don’t think I’m asking for too much! Can he really be that stubborn, that passive aggressive? Does he really no understand my side?

One more thing you all should know. I like sex. I’m a very sexual person. It’s just that right now, having sex with someone that doesn’t help me in any way that I need is the last thing I want to do. I’ve told him what I need, and he refuses to do it. So what now?

Any advice would be appreciated, because we’re both at the end of our ropes.

[J_9]

Alty, I haven't read your entire post as I am extremely exhausted. Been up since 3 am on a field trip with Little J.

But I do want to ask if R has had a check up lately including blood work. Much of what you describe can be attributed to hypothyroidism.

[Alty]

Alty, I haven't read your entire post as I am extremely exhausted. Been up since 3 am on a field trip with Little J.

But I do want to ask if R has had a check up lately including blood work. Much of what you describe can be attributed to hypothyroidism.

He has been checked. He's been diagnosed with depression, and our doctor prescribed meds, but he doesn't take them.

He's always been the type of guy that needs at least 9 - 11 hours of sleep a night to function. The fact that he doesn't got to bed until 5am every night, sometimes later (or is it earlier) doesn't help. I've mentioned this to him. His response "I can't sleep if I'm not tired". My reply "You're not tired at a decent hour because you've trained your body to stay awake at unreasonable hours".

Even when he works nights he's home by 12:30am. There's no reason he can't go to bed at a half decent hour and actually do something before he goes to work.

[Wondergirl]

Counseling?

[Alty]

Counseling?

I suggested that. It was the first thing I suggested. If I pushed harder I know he'd go for it. Or, if I was even more passive aggressive and we stopped having sex completely, I know he'd agree to counseling. But right now, he knows there's a problem, but he doesn't think it's big enough to go to counseling. Besides (and here's a bit of my anger coming out), if we went to counseling he'd have to give up his sleep or TV time. :(

[Wondergirl]

I'll call him. :D

[Alty]

I'll call him. :D

WG, if I thought you could get through to him, I'd agree to that in a heart beat.

Fact is, we just had a fight.

Jared got his report card today. It wasn't good. The fact is, the kid misses too much school. It's not even his ADHD that's to blame. He simply misses too much school. But forcing him to go when he says "I don't feel good etc", is not something I can deal with in the morning.

So I just gave Jared a lecture, told him that I won't be listening to excuses anymore, that if he doesn't feel good, he's going to have to suck it up.

Well, Rod said "Stop harping on him". Well, that was the last straw. I lost it, and it wasn't pretty. My response was "When you start being accountable, start actually being a parent, then you can tell me what to say to my son. But until then, you have nothing to say! You're not the one that emails his teachers. You're not the one that goes to parent teacher interviews and talks about how badly he's doing. You're not the one spending hours every night helping him do his homework. So you have no right to say anything!"

Rod is not happy, Jared is upset, and I left the conversation to go to my computer because frankly, I'm tired of this. I'm just done. I feel like a single mom. The only difference, I have a husband that sleeps in the home we share, and does help provide financially for his family. Other than that, I'm alone in this. :(

[Wondergirl]

How old is Jared? My younger son went through a missing-school-I'm-sick phase during 6th-8th grade (off and on). Now he claims (at 36!) he was bullied, so was scared to go. Remembering back, I would never have believed that. I knew all the kids and their families. But I would finally let him stay home too many days. I had to go to work and didn't want to fight about it and then get called by the school to come pick him up because he was really sick.

Meanwhile, my husband was clueless, even though I told him about it. He just wanted to go to work, come home, and eat supper, then have his private space to wind down until bed. He never helped with housework or homework.

Did our husbands go to the same husband/father-training school?

[Cat1864]

Alty, are you calm enough to accept a virtual hug?

Could you have R read this thread? If not, you might share this with him:

I have a friend who is in about the same boat you are. Even worse, her husband works out of town for months at a time coming back for a weekend every so often. Sometimes a week between assignments. What you are describing of R's behavior is very close to K's husband. Until a couple of months ago, she blew up and he realized how close to losing everything he was (this was a man who routinely threatens to leave her when things aren't the way he wants them and refused to get treatment for depression saying that everything was 'fine' or her fault.) He finally went on medication for his depression (a major reason for his behavior) and the turn around is amazing. Last time he was in town, he only looked at his computer to check email or play a game while he let her get some sleep. He planned, while he was out of town, a night out for them to celebrate a late Valentine's Day. With him causing less stress and taking some of it off her, they are both doing a lot better.

He has had a couple of backslides, but they didn't last long. A total change from five months ago.

Ask R if he would be willing to give the meds a try. Is he worried about side-effects or being able to afford them and passing the concerns off as 'I'm fine'?

[Alty]

@WG. Jared is 13, in grade 7. Our stories are so similar it's scary. There are a few differences though. A few weeks ago we (Rod and I) sat down with Jared and told him that we had to know what's going on, that he couldn't keep missing school, and we couldn't help if we didn't know why. He admitted to being bullied. So I contacted one of his teachers, she went the principal, they all sat down with Jared, and they're working on making things better for him.

Frankly I think that he's just tired. He has a hard time falling asleep at night, he's a young teen and lazy. Everything is an issue at this age. Teens are a challenge. But Rod isn't oblivious to it, and he does care about what's going on. He's just never home to deal with these issues. They usually fall on my shoulders, and right now I feel like I'm a single parent. We discussed that last night, and he agrees, and understands why I feel the way I feel.

@ Cat, He has been diagnosed with depression, as have I. I've been on antidepressants for over 10 years now. Rod tried them for less than a month, gave up because they didn't work immediately. I told him that he had to give it time, that most antidepressants don't start working for up to 6 months. But he gave up, and I couldn't force him to take them, even though I really think they'd help a great deal.

Rod is under a lot of stress. We both are. Financially we're sinking. My working helps, and we're starting to get our heads above water finally, after almost a year of me starting back to work. But it's still a stresser.

He's a good man. I love him more than anything. He's my soul mate, and I know I'm his. We had a good long talk last night, and we both agreed that we have to make changes. Not just him, but me as well. I know I'm part of the problem. It's never just one person.

We both feel a lot better about things now that we've talked. I'm hoping that we'll make the changes we discussed last night. We just both have to realize that things can't continue the way they have been.

The only thing we can't change is R's work schedule. But he agrees that when he's home, he has to be more active in his families lives. Jared is a teen. We don't have much time left with him actually wanting to be with us, actually accepting our advice. It's do or die time, and it weighs on my mind a lot.

R is going back to our doctor and getting back on the meds, and this time he's agreed to give them a longer try. We're going to counseling, he agreed. I'm setting up the appointment very soon. One good thing about his job, they'll pay for counseling. So it won't be a burden on us financially.

Thank you all so much for answering my post. It was really hard to admit that things aren't going as well as I'd like. I was at the end of my rope last night. It's been building for months. I needed someone to talk to, and you were all there for me. I can't tell you all enough how much I appreciate it.

[Wondergirl]

Alty, I have been thinking about this. When I went back to work, the housework and kids' homework and meal planning and making meals and doing laundry became overwhelming, and my husband wasn't helpful at all. I had to lower my standards and teach everyone how to do stuff. I taught my kids how to do their own laundry, fold it, and put it away (they do it better than I can!). I taught them how to fix simple things on the stove top (grilled cheese, soup) and in the oven, and of course the microwave was worth its weight in gold for reheating and for making quickie suppers. On weekends, I made large quantities of food, broke it up into individual dinners, and froze it to be reheated during the week. It really wasn't as much work as it sounds like, especially when I got the rest of the family involved in helping plan and prepare.

The kids did other chores, like make their own beds, do some housecleaning, wipe up floors, take care of the cats and litter box, etc. I had to lower my five-star-hotel standards, and it took a few months to become routine, but we did it. And I no longer had to be the glue that held everyone together.

So, get S and J more involved?

[Alty]

WG, I completely agree. Rod does too. He often tells me to get the kids involved, to give them more responsibility. He's great about that, and the kids are more than willing, especially Sydney. He had her washing dishes last weekend. She loves it! She actually begs to do it. Rod even bought her dish gloves that fit her hands.

My problem. I'm OCD. That's one of my main issues, one of the problems I have, one that I have to work on. Syd washes the dishes, and I rewash them because I don't think anyone can do it to my standards.

I'm sure she's doing a good job. In my head I know she is. But I still rewash, redo, everything she does.

Syd is a little helper. She's more than willing to pitch in, and I'm squishing that. I know I am. In the process I'm also making more work for myself, even though I have a willing helper.

I have to learn to accept their help. This is one of the things were I'm part of the problem, not the solution. I have to change that. It's just not easy. :(

But, I'm fairly sure that neither of the kids can fix the dishwasher. So I know I'm right about that aspect of our issues. ;)

[Wondergirl]

I too am a perfectionist, so you know how hard it was for me to let go of jobs that were done perfectly and let other people do things their way (even after I carefully trained them). It nearly killed me not to check stuff that had been done, and I saw (and still see) places on the floor that were missed during washing and water spots on the bathroom mirror and how could they not see the dirty fingermarks on the sides of the door!! I had to back off and NOT redo stuff they had happily done (and thus insult my family by doing so). So far we haven't died from any smears of grease or food specks left on dishes.

[Alty]

Logically I know that WG. I know that a bit of missed dirt on the floor won't kill us. I know that Syd washing dishes is fine, and I don't have to redo them. I know that if the counter isn't cleaned exactly the way I do it, it's not the end of the world. My mind knows it. But my OCD won't let it go.

The thing is, I know I have to get over this. I know that I have to find a way to let it go. It's just not easy, but I am working on it. I really am. In fact, Jared just went to the backyard to pick up dog poo. I didn't even check to see if he did a good job. I also didn't check his boots after he was done to make sure he hadn't stepped in anything. Syd is washing dishes and drying them. She put them away, and I'll leave them. If she missed a spot, I'm sure we won't die. I am trying. Really I am.

[Wondergirl]

And you won't tiptoe into the kitchen or back yard later to check up on what they did? You will breathe deeply and tell them thank you and dole out big hugs?

[Alty]

And you won't tiptoe into the kitchen or back yard later to check up on what they did? You will breathe deeply and tell them thank you and dole out big hugs?

LOL! Jared did the poo pickup this morning. I haven't checked, and I told him I was very proud of him for doing it.

I also told Syd that she did a great job cleaning dishes, and I'm thankful.

Hugs and high fives where had by all.

It's not that I don't appreciate it. I do. I'm grateful that they are willing to help. I just have to learn to let go of the standards I have. I have to learn to deal with my OCD (by the way, it really should be CDO. That way it would be in alphabetical order). ;)

[Wondergirl]

Delegating at home helped me later when I inherited the library's court-ordered community service workers (often teen boys) who had no clue what to do with a bucket of soapy water and a dirty library. I was the soul of patience. My OCD didn't show at all (um, or much).

You may have a future as a camp counselor, Alty.

[DoulaLC]

Hugs to you Alty. Glad to head the two of you have had a calm discussion about it and agreed to work at making some changes. You're a team and you're in this together. You both want the same thing, just need to come to an agreement on how to get there. Your paths may be slightly different, as you have different things you may want to work on, but that is OK as long as the goal is the same. Think baby steps.

Agree to discuss any additional concerns that come up calmly. You might even consider trying to find a time each week to talk about the progress that is being made... sort of a relationship check-up. It can be brief, but it will leave you both feeling better connected. That connection is so easy to lose sight of when you are both going in different directions... especially for an extended period.

Expect some occasional backsteps... it takes time to change habits and patterns. Stay the course with the things you are working on and reap the rewards of the small successes along the way. You're on your way with it in not checking up on the kids... :)

[Alty]

Thanks Doula. Your post made me cry.

I know that we're going to have to work on this. We're both willing. He told me last night that he knows he's been absent in this relationship, that he doesn't know how it happened, but he knows why. He's depressed. He has no motivation. I completely understand that. The fact that I've been just as upset, and that sex hasn't been something I want to do because of the other issues, has made his depression and absence even worse. Like I said, we're both passive aggressive. :(

The fact is, he loves me, he loves his kids. When I told him that I feel like a single mom, that to me he's just someone that I'm married to that sleeps in our home, helps pay the bills, but other than that, isn't really there, he cried. He doesn't want that. He's upset with himself for letting it get to that point. Seeing him cry broke my heart. I don't want to hurt him, but he has to see what I see, what the kids see. They're kids for such a short time. We only get one shot at this, one shot at making their childhood memories great. That's what I want for them. That's what Rod wants too.

We came up with a plan, we're going to go to counseling, we're going to find our way again. We've been through more than most couples ever have to face, and we got through it all, stronger than we were before. I know this won't break us.

Bottom line, we love each other. This man means more to me than anything. He's not only the man I married, he's my best friend. When he allows himself to be, when he forgets all the problems we have (financial issues, depression etc), he's the best dad ever. He feels that all the financial stuff is on his shoulders, and only his. He's taken on that weight, even though we've always been in it together, he didn't feel like we were. I didn't know that.

We both just fell into a rut, and we have to dig ourselves out of it. At least now we have shovels. I just wish I hadn't waited so long to talk to him about this. I just didn't want to upset him further. I thought he'd figure it out. That was a huge mistake.

I'm not perfect. I have things I have to work on too. More than I even mentioned on this thread. We have a tough road ahead of us. I may even have more to change than he does. But both of us are willing, because in the end, we still love each other. We're lifers. :)

I am so very grateful to all of you for being here for me when I needed you all. There's no group of people that I trust more than I trust all of you. I knew that you would all tell me what I needed to hear, you wouldn't sugarcoat it, and you'd be there when I needed you. I wouldn't trust this issue with anyone else.

It was hard to write this post, hard to say that I'm human too, that I also have issues. The thing is, I post on the relationship forum. I know what it takes to make a relationship/marriage work. I know all of that. But when it comes to your own life, it's not always easy to follow the advice you yourself dish out. But I'm not only listening to all of you now. I'm also listening to what I know is the right way to go about this.

Now R and I know what we're both feeling and thinking. We have a plan. I know that it won't get better immediately, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We're both going to work on this.

We're going on a date night next weekend. We haven't done that in... wow... I can't even give you a timeline. It's been over a year at least. We're working on us, and getting us back, it will make the entire family better.

I'm glad I blew up last night. It may be the best thing I've done in a long time. :)

[Aurora_Bell]

Hey Alty, I can't offer much advice, because, well I ain't getting none either (my attempt to make you smile). I understand the frustration of having to do it all on your own. I understand how tiring it is being the good guy AND the bad guy and finding that fine line in between. Not fun. I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be having someone in the same house and still not pulling his weight.

SO I may have missed this, but what is R doing to fix his depression? Is he on meds? Is he going to talk to someone? You know yourself, depression just doesn't go away. You know that he needs to be able to help himself before he can make things right between the two of yous.

I would push for the counseling. You said if you push harder he would go for it. I think sometimes in a marriage (And how the heck would I know anyway... ) you need outside people to hear both sides, and instead of them picking sides, they find a common ground and help with a solution.

I wish I could offer some better advice, but you know my number, I'm just a phone call away for some of the best ears in town.

((Hugs))