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speedball1 · Jan 2, 2012, 11:12 AM

Me too!

guddaddy · Feb 2, 2012, 01:38 PM

I like the idea and am considering it myself. I would use an 80 bladder tank direct feed from my well with the pressure switch. The flow would then go from that tank into the first whole house filter, 50 micron and from there to a 5 micron. After the water leaves the 5m filter it would flow into a second 80 gallon bladder tank. The only downside I can see to this arrangement is that on a drawdown that would kick the pump on, the pre-filter tank would hit the cut off pressure slightly before the second tank was 'caught up' because of the flow time through the filter. I am guessing that the system would balance out at a pressure slightly under the cut off pressure. As the filters got dirtier that effect would be increased; i.e. the balanced pressure would be lower... thoughts?

jlisenbe · Feb 2, 2012, 06:06 PM

I just don't see that as being a good idea. First of all, an 80 gallon bladder tank is going to cost mega dollars. Look at this link: Amtrol 300-L "L" Series EXTROL ASME Expansion Tank, 80 Gallon (192-2) at PlumberSurplus.com

I'm sure you can get one cheaper than that, but you get the picture. A galvanized tank is much cheaper, but it requires periodic maintanence, and for what benefit? Why not simply add a larger filter or put two filters in the line? It might cost a pound or two of pressure, but that's not a big deal.

Well, they are cheaper than I thought. Look at these two. Free shipping with both.

WellMate Fiberglass 87 Gallon Bladder Pressure Tank - WM-25WB - WM-25WB

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1...paign=Products

guddaddy · Feb 3, 2012, 07:47 AM

jlisenbe,

Thanks for the response... I am NOT going to use a galvanized tank - I don't understand why that continues to be 'the answer' to pressure tank questions. My last pressure tank I installed a Flotek 80 gallon bladder tank that lasted 16 years and I was happy with it. I am proposing a 2 tank model (each tank is $600 with free shipping) because when I turn the faucet on I want to draw down water that has been pre-filtered and not have to fight the filter for pressure and flow and to increase my drawdown. I am not asking someone thinks it is cost efficient or the way they would do it, but rather are there any design issues/flaws that I am not smart enough to see. Thanks.

speedball1 · Feb 3, 2012, 07:59 AM

I don't understand why that continues to be 'the answer' to pressure tank questions.

Because the terms are confusing. A pressure tank is not a bladder tank although they both perform the same function, A 80 gallon pressure tank will hold more volume then a 80 gallon bladder tank and you don't have to worry about a ruptured membrane. Did that make things a bit clearer? Cheers, Tom

guddaddy · Feb 3, 2012, 12:12 PM

Thanks for the 'clarity', not sure it answers my question though.. I have attached plumbing layout and would very much appreciate comments on the feasibility/possible problems/etc...

Sorry, here is the file. The site must not allow Visio files.

jlisenbe · Feb 3, 2012, 03:38 PM

I think that what you are proposing will work fine. I'm not sure you are going to notice any great increase in pressure or volume since filters, unless they are clogged, don't decrease pressure that much, but who knows? If you do this, let us know how it works for you. Good luck.

One thing's for sure. Your pump is going to have some llooonnnnggggg cycles, which is good.

guddaddy · Feb 27, 2012, 08:07 AM

Results of my install - second pressure tank after the filter(s). My primary tank is on the right and has the digital cutout switch - set to 40/60 pounds. The pump runs for approximatly 90 seconds to fill the system and cut off the pump. As I expected, the primary tank continues to push water through the filter pack into the seconday tank and the whole system 'balances' at around 57 pounds, I expect that to drop a little as the filters get dirty. I haven't measured the drawdown yet but I am able to do a complete cycle on the cloths washing machine - wash and rinse, and run the dishwasher... I think that is close to 50 gallons.

jlisenbe · Feb 27, 2012, 05:46 PM

"...however, because of density of the filter, the water pressure dropped significantly during showering or if you were running the sink and someone else in the house flushed a toilet. "

So is your volume/pressure solved? If so, then this solution is one we will point back to in the future.

BTW, what did the tank cost?

guddaddy · Feb 29, 2012, 07:58 AM

"...however, because of density of the filter, the water pressure dropped significantly during showering or if you were running the sink and someone else in the house flushed a toilet. "

I don't believe that is something I wrote.. in any event, I do have more flow and I believe it is because of the storage past the filters. It is hard to compare since the tank I replaced had a blown bladder and I can't remember what the flow/pressure was when I installed the tank back in 1994. It just makes sense to me that you don't want to fight the filters every time you turn the water on. The tanks were $600 each and with the new filter housing, digital cutout switch, $400 worth of new filters, new FRP panels on the walls, new 30amp wiring, yada yada - the total cost of the system as pictured was roughly $2,500. My next project is a rain collection system that I will use to flush the toliets and do laundry with - it falls out of the sky, seems a shame not to use it..

jlisenbe · Feb 29, 2012, 06:04 PM

Sorry, GU. I forgot that you had piggybacked on an existing thread. I go the quote from the original post in this thread.

Hope it works well for you. Let us know how the rain deal goes.

chichagof · Mar 30, 2012, 10:02 PM

guddaddy,

After a little more time, how is the system working. It is just what we were thinking of doing. Since we put in the filter system, my daughter is tired of the shower not running fast enough to get the shampoo out. Do you see a change in water pressure sufficient to justify the change in the system? Thanks for your clear posts about what you did.

speedball1 · Mar 31, 2012, 06:07 AM

Hi chichagof and Welcome to The Plumbing Page. At AskMeHelpDesk.com. You're responding to a 1 year old dead thread Look in then upper left hand corner of the first post form the date before you post, Thanks,
Have you considered adding a booster pump and bladder tank to increase both pressure and volume? Back to you. Tom

chichagof · Mar 31, 2012, 10:16 AM

Thanks for the welcome. It looks to me like I am responding to a February 2012 comment, did I end up someplace else as well?

More to the point. Would it be a mistake to put a booster pump in line after a series of filters? I am wondering if pulling water through the filters faster would make them less effective. Thanks for any help. I like the idea of a bladder tank to increase volume.

speedball1 · Mar 31, 2012, 11:48 AM

Thanks for the welcome. It looks to me like I am responding to a February 2012 comment, did I end up someplace else as well?

No, The thread you responded ton was John telling another "piggybacker" the same thing I'm telling you... For the original date look at the first post. I don't know about the filter but a bladder tank won't increase volume. For that you would need a galvanized pressure tank. Do the math on which tank holds what. Regards, Tom

guddaddy · Apr 5, 2012, 01:22 PM

To chichagof,

I did not have a 'choice' in changing my system - the bladder in my original tank was blown and the pump was running non-stop for even minor water usage. My new system is working exactly as I anticipted; with a new set of filters the system would cut off at 60 pounds and balance out at 57-58 pounds. As the filters are getting dirtier, the 'balence out' pressure is slowly going down; I have lots of iron and sediment in my water. The 'lower' pressure is OK with me since I am mostly bald and don't need a fire hose to wash my hair. :-) I like the fact that I have lots of draw down between pump cycles. I may crank up the pressure from 60/40 to 70/50 to see if I can get some more life out of the filters.

speedball1 · Apr 5, 2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by guddaddy

To chichagof,

I did not have a 'choice' in changing my system - the bladder in my original tank was blown and the pump was running non-stop for even minor water usage. My new system is working exactly as I anticipted; with a new set of filters the system would cut off at 60 pounds and balence out at 57-58 pounds. As the filters are getting dirtier, the 'balence out' pressure is slowly going down; I have lots of iron and sediment in my water. The 'lower' pressure is ok with me since I am mostly bald and dont need a fire hose to wash my hair. :-) I like the fact that I have lots of draw down between pump cycles. I may crank up the pressure from 60/40 to 70/50 to see if I can get some more life out of the filters.

Thanks for the up date. I see your reasoning about kicking up the PSI,(80 should be tops). Bear in mind the higher the PSI the more strain on the pipe fittings and faucets. Good luck, Tom