[deethebee]

In November 2010 I was moving and looking for somewhere to store my things. A friend of mine said his sister had space in his attic and they'd rent me the space for £30 a month. At the time it seemed like a good idea so I did it. I realised months later it was a bad idea as the house was far out of the way for me to get to as I don't drive and my friend who had helped me move didn't have access to the truck he borrowed from his work anymore. I decided to get my stuff in November last year and had to pay someone £100 to fetch my things. I notified my friend's sister that someone was coming and when the stuff arrived I realised there were things missing. E.g. A coffee table of mine they'd taken apart to fit into their attic came back with only the frame and not the glass top or mid shelf, I had a stand for a full length mirror but there was no mirror and a box containing videos and computer software was also missing.

I contacted them about this and after much discussion they agreed to bring the rest of my things up over the Christmas period. I waited patiently until the new year and then sent another text to which I got no reply. It appears to me now like they have no intention of bringing my things and they would cost me more than £100 to replace. I can't prove that those things are mine apart from the fact I have parts of them and I can prove I was paying them every month too for their "services". I have even contacted my so called friend to ask for help and he hasn't bothered replying to me either.

Can anyone tell me what I can do to get my things back? Do I have any chance making a claim to the small claims court? I don't know what to do but it certainly doesn't seem fair for me to just have to accept my stuff is gone when I paid them £360 over the course of a year to look after my things. I would fetch them myself if I could but I don't have access to a vehicle nor can I afford to pay another £100 for someone to fetch my things.

Thanks for your help

[cherrybomber]

It may seem harsh but you could contact the police and ask for advice. These people have effectively stolen from you. Try calling your friend one more time first and explain you are fed up and just want your stuff back. If you can't resolve it you can go to the police but I guess you have to decide how much energy you want to put into it and whether it's worth all the potential aggro.

Good luck.

[deethebee]

Thanks Cherrybomber, but I am not sure that argument would stand. It's not really theft as if I went there to fetch my things I'm sure they'd give them back. It was initially an innocent mistake, but one that should be their responsibility to correct and they said they would but have done nothing. I don't know if it's worth the aggro, but it's like £200 worth of my things... they shouldn't just be able to get away with it.

[smoothy]

It think the bigger a deal you make about it the more they are going to push back on principle... and like you said... then it becomes more effort than its worth. Being right and having to prove it can be more expensive than simply walking away is.

[deethebee]

Smoothy, it isn't about being right... I want my things back and they would cost me something like £200 to replace. I paid them £30 a month to look after my things - I don't see how I'm doing anything wrong or "pushing" them as you say. They agreed to bring my things to me since they had not loaded them into the van I paid to collect everything and now they are just ignoring me. Did you even read my question properly? It is my property and I have no way of going back there again to fetch the things they forgot about, without paying through my nose for it again and I don't have the money.

[smoothy]

I read your post before... and what I said is still valid.

Unless your time has zero value to you... it can easily cost you more than its worth... And that amount of money really isn't much. It might cost you that much for NEW stuff, but your stuff is used and has far less value. Courts will depreciate the value of used items... just because they said they would bring them to you... isn't carved in stone... all they have to say it here it is YOU come get it... and you are out more money... see my point.

You getting back there is your problem.. not theirs. You not having the money isn't their problem.. its yours.

I made the mistake once upon a time many years ago of trying to help someone out.. a situation much like this... the token amount of money wasn't worth the aggravation that followed... they dragged their feet... they bellyached, I had to give them an ultimatum to pick it up by a certain date or the next day it was going out in the trash and as a result... I have never again let anyone put their stuff on my property again.

There are commercial storage facilities, that do this... there are contracts... insurance, security. People can use them.

I'm sure you have a written inventory signed by them, pictures to prove their condition etc... because if you try to take them to court... you are going to have to present this proof.

Do you see now the point I was trying to make? There is what you know , and then there is what you can prove. And if you try to take them to court... you are going to have to prove they ever had it...

I don't doubt you had it... but I'm not the judge. They are going to want the proof.

Besides... you only paid them for storage... not for transportation. They aren't obligated to bring them to you.

Taking time off work costs you money... paying someone to pick them up cost you more money. Sueing them will cost you money. Sometimes you have to cut your losses... and consider it a learning experience. Personally I'd have never left property with someone I didn't know... it ALWAYS turns out bad.

I left two motorcycles with a "friend" that I had been good friends with for years... with the understanding he would sell them for me and send the money... well a year later... nothing, I ended up traveling back for a month on business. Confronted him, after an hour of yelling and lies they didn't have it either... (I saw it out there and told them exactly where it was sitting) threats to call the police then they finally gave me the title to the one that he didn't sell, and I lost the value of the other because it would have been more trouble to try and collect than it was worth.

That was a learning experience for me... a mistake I never repeated again. And it cost me three times as much. That was 20 years ago.

Listen I DO understand what you are saying... I DO understand what you are feeling. And what I am saying is some things aren't worth the trouble. And some things just aren't big enough to fight over. It only seems like it's a lot right now because you don't have much. I wouldn't even drive 60 miles to recover something like that... the fuel costs, my time and the wear and tear of my car wouldn't be worth it to me.

I just hope there is truth to Karma... because what goes around comes back around eventually.

[deethebee]

Smoothy, I'm afraid that you don't appear to understand the court system in the UK. The small claims court will ask me how much money I want to claim from them and I can say however much I want. I can say £200 to recover my things, £100 for the stress they've caused me and another £100 for the money I paid initially to collect my stuff. I can even charge interest. It will then be up to the judge to decide if I have a valid claim or not.

However, I don't agree with you saying it's not their problem. I have already paid ONCE for someone to fetch my things and the van came back minus the things I mentioned. That is THEIR fault. It was their error as they did not bring all my stuff out of their attic and even if I had been there I would not have known this until unpacking all my things. So why exactly should it be my responsibility to get back there again to fetch the things that they didn't give back? And no, it's not their problem that I don't have money - thanks for pointing that out. However, since I paid what I could afford and what was sufficient it is not fair for them to expect me to fork out money TWICE.

And I'm sorry but you can't compare your situation to mine. I didn't ASK them to store my things, my friend offered the space and as I wasn't sure what my long term plans would be I went with it. I paid them every month so it's not like they were doing me ANY favours! They didn't contact me once to say they needed me to fetch my things and they were happily taking my money so it's hardly a case of me taking my time to collect them.

And no it isn't carved in stone what they said, but they also haven't even had the decency to reply to me and say, "We've changed our minds" or whatever. They also have family up my way who they said they would be visiting over Christmas and so they would bring my things then and I accepted that. You seem to make it sound like I don't have a leg to stand on, but I don't agree. I have a text from them saying they will let me know when they're coming up to bring my things.

I am well aware of storage facilities as I've used them before. That is not the point. I was deciding on which storage place to use when my friend offered me the space at his sister's house. In hindsight, yes I wish I'd rather gone with a proper storage place but hindsight is no good to me. And even without a written contract, verbal contracts still stand. These people were not complete strangers who'd lent out some space to me. It was my "friend"'s family - I've said this a number of times. You put a certain amount of trust in with people who are supposed to be your friends. And it doesn't make me an idiot for trusting them. Should I go throughout my whole life not trusting ANYONE?

And no I'm not going to be asked to present inventories unless it was a professional company I was using. A court will simply ask for what evidence I have, which is the bits and pieces without a frame as well as a receipt for the software I paid for and no longer have. And I only have to prove what is necessary e.g. the money going out of my account and into theirs! That proves there was a contract between us.

And you can say they aren't obliged to bring my things to me but really that is not the point. No company is obliged to do anything. I could buy something online and they offer free delivery but they don't have to deliver it if they don't want to. It doesn't make them right. They could tell you delivery is free and then charge your card for delivery. Again, doesn't make it right. If you have paid for a service and agreed a verbal contract then that is what counts. I am the victim here and really your long essay implying that I don't deserve any help from these people is not of any help to me. I came here to find out what I CAN do, not what I can't. You can never stop people screwing you over as you never see it coming, but is it OK to just let it go and let them win? Isn't that why the world is in such a state of disrepair? Because we all just grin and bear the crap. It's time to stand up and be counted instead of just paying some company who is threatening you just to save yourself the hassle. This is why they get away with it, time and time again. If people stood up for themselves and tried to find ways of beating them we wouldn't be so imprisoned. But you clearly have nothing enlightening to offer me. So thanks for your time but it has been wasted.

[smoothy]

If you have all the answers then... what did you come here to ask?

If you don't have to back up ANY claims you make against anyone... thats a seriously screwed up court system... and they could do the very same thing to you. They can claim you never had those items because they don't have to present any proof either.

If you take a step back... take a deep breath... drop the attitude and try to look at this objectively... you are going to see exactly what I was trying to tell you. Because any judge is going to see this through their own eyes not yours.

And trust me... I know the situation, and how you are thinking far better than you can imagine.

But you have to drop the attitude down a few notches... it gets you into more problems than it will ever get you out of.

I can make that comment because its true... because when I was young and dumb like you I used to be just like that... and do something on what I thought was principle at the time... ignoring the fact that winning cost me more than walking away... in more ways than one.

But heck... its your life... if you don't want to listen to advice from someone that's been there... you shouldn't be asking for it.

And incidentally... before getting rude with the not helpfulls you should take sometime to read the site rules...

If you want someone to agree with you... call your mum. We aren't your mum. We tell it like it is.

[deethebee]

I came here to ask for legal advice, hence why I placed the question under "Law". I am not looking for your average person's point of view, I'm looking for what I can actually do legally.

I never said I don't have to prove ANYTHING - I said I will be asked to prove what I am able and the judge will then make a decision based on that. I've told you what proof I have, I don't simply have my word against theirs.

I'm not young and stupid, nor do I have an "attitude" as you call it - I am simply tired of people telling me what I can't do. And especially coming from someone who doesn't know the UK legal system. I have been through enough frustration with the whole situation and I am actually looking for people who can offer helpful and supportive advice. Do you not think I've already considered MYSELF about just leaving the whole thing? I don't really need other people telling me to leave it. It is my choice and if I want to take the legal route I'm looking to find out what my options are, that is all.

I've laid down and taken this crap before and I am still angry that people have gotten away with it. I'm not a doormat and I'm not going to be walked all over anymore and that is what this is about. Please don't try and tell me that what is best for you is also best for me because we are different people. I'm not looking for agreement, just helpful legal advice. Clearly I was too quick to post on this site as it cannot offer the kind of advice I'm looking for.

[smoothy]

Tell you what, since you have all the answers... sue them... use that attitude in the courtroom, and let us know how it turns out for you.

Seems to have worked very well for you this far. No car, fixated about something of less value than I make before lunch... I'll remember this while I've driving home in one of my several Mercedes tonight... how little I know about things according to you.

I won't lose sleep over it tonight because I've learned to let things go so I can focus on things more important that will get me ahead in life. I've been penniless before, and almost homeless. So I've been doing something right.

Good luck... and I mean it... you will need it.

[ebaines]

deethebee: you haven't mentioned the obvious thing to try - why don't you go and knock on their door and get your items yourself, rather than relying on them to provide free transportation? If it turns out that they don't have the items or refuse to produce them, then sure - sue. But their defense will be simple: they will say the items you want were never stored there, and if they were the people you hired to transport them must have lost or stolen them. Smoothy is right - without a signed inventory that lists the items that they agreed to store for you, you will probably lose.

[smoothy]

deethebee: you haven't mentioned the obvious thing to try - why don't you go and knock on their door and get your items yourself, rather than relying on them to provide free transportation? If it turns out that they don't have the items or refuse to produce them, then sure - go ahead and sue. But their defense will be simple: they will say the items you want were never stored there, and if they were the people you hired to transport them must have lost or stolen them. Smoothy is right - without a signed inventory that lists the items that they agreed to store for you, you will probably lose.

Not to mention under the UK Legal system... its typically winner takes all. Meaning the loser ends up paying both sides legal fees. Its certainly a disincentive for people to file frivolous lawsuits. Losing can become an expensive misadventure.