[Wondergirl]

how that will do anything except further increase the unemployment rates.

Let's try it and see.

[smoothy]

Let's try it and see.

If you mean making the 47% pay their fair share, I'm all for it...

If you mean the already overtaxed wealthy, I'd rather not... the current administration has made such a mess of things as it is... doing that will guarantee businesses will close, and/or move offshore. And when that happens... its not going to reverse any time soon. And if you think its bad now... just wait. I'm not rich by any stretch... but you can make it bad enough I will take it overseas... and that is significantly NOT an obsticle for those with lots of money. And when that happens... you lose that tax base... since the top 10% pays 70% now... that is VERY significant.

[talaniman]

Forget it WG, conservatives blast any ideas that they don't believe in. That's exactly why NOTHING gets done. That's why they tell that tall tale about the 47% that DON'T pay taxes, when ALL the evidence says they do.

There whole agenda is keeping them in power so they can keep the world they love and are comfortable with intact. That's why they protest in the streets, both young and old, and repeal the policies that are clearly unfair to the many, in many states where New republican Governors try to usurp rights, and steal more money so they can appease their corporate masters.

They may be the loudest crowd around, but I think its clear that the rest of us are tired of being tinkled on... I mean trickled on. Facts mean nothing to a conservative, because self preservation by any means necessary is there true agenda, and telling everyone who disagrees with them they have no value is the means they perpetrate this agenda.

They simply cannot count, and don't feel they have to, because fair is not the agenda, subjugation is. Haven't they proven it by their rhetoric? Aimed at everyone BUT themselves.

[Wondergirl]

If you mean making the 47% pay their fair share, I'm all for it...

Um, they're the ones who've lost their jobs because the wealthy corporate owners took the jobs overseas, moved offshore, moved their plants to Mexico to find cheap labor. They'd be glad to pay their fair share if they had paychecks.

[talaniman]

If you mean making the 47% pay their fair share, I'm all for it...

If you mean the already overtaxed wealthy, I'd rather not....the current administration has made such a mess of things as it is...doing that will guarentee businesses will close, and/or move offshore. And when that happens...its not going to reverse any time soon. And if you think its bad now...just wait. I'm not rich by any stretch...but you can make it bad enough I will take it overseas...and that is significantly NOT an obsticle for those with lots of money. And when that happens...you lose that tax base....since the top 10% pays 70% now...that is VERY significant.

LMAO!! Overtaxed wealthy?? Leaving?? I DARE YOU!! I DOUBLE DARE YOU!!

[paraclete]

Smoothy why don't you leave now? Where would you go? Europe? Australia? They will all tax you more but they will give you more in return

[talaniman]

I doubt they leave Clete, and there is nothing you have that we don't have for the really rich guys here. But you can have them all.

America, love it, or leave it! WOW I sound like a righties!!

[paraclete]

Tal, don't get me wrong, we don't want them, we have our own crop of billionaires and millionaires and I'll say this for them, they stay out of our face. Some, like that idiot Hogan, get chased by the tax boys but generally they pay their tax and don't complain when the rates change

[talaniman]

Our rich guys have politicians to do their bidding for them.

[tomder55]

conservatives blast any ideas that they don't believe in

And of course you reasonably consider the ones we do.

[tomder55]

Update... some lawyer union group got an injunction against NYC ;but a state judge smacked them down .

Now the OWS has the right to protest just like everyone else does... which means go home at the end of the day. (hint... a good time to use daddy's shower)

[TUT317]

Afterburner with Bill Whittle: Three and a Half Days - YouTube

"Every civilization collapses the same way"

A massive generalization and absolute nonsense.

Civilizations have collapsed for a variety of reasons. Some causes have absolutely nothing to do with the fault of its citizens. For example, natural disasters, protracted wars, invasion, rapid climate change. In many cases there is no historians agreement as to the actual causes of the decline of some civilizations.

This nonsense being his initial premise the rest of his argument tends to follow suit.

We don't have to chop wood and hunt because corporations do these unpleasant things for us? NO, we don't have to do these things because this is the level of sophistication we are born into.

Should we be grateful that corporations purify our water? Does he mean in the same way Hobbes' Leviathan tells us we should be grateful to the sovereign power for giving us self protection in exchange for giving up our freedoms and liberties?

Should we be grateful when corporations demand their rights under personhood and seek to pay massive amounts of money to politicians? Should we also be grateful when corporations seek to influence local laws and regulations that are seen as an impediment to 'its' (sorry, him/her's) progress.

Bill Whittle needs to get out of the 16th century and have a look at modern ideas of social contract theory.

Tom, you keep telling us to be on the lookout for the Leviathan. I think you are giving excellent advice. The only problem is you are looking for it in the wrong place.

Tut

[paraclete]

Tom is like all conservatives he wants it all his own way, which means no change to the established order.

[talaniman]

The occupiers got kicked out, but they came back, without the tents, but they came back. Not over by any means.

[TUT317]

Tom is like all conservatives he wants it all his own way, which means no change to the established order.

Hi Clete,

Yes, no change to the establish order.

On that basis Tom might be happy with opening the flood gates for a corporate exploitation of the 14 Amendment.

Corporations have vast amounts of money and resources so it shouldn't be a problem squeezing every little bit out of the this particular amendment to advance the interests of the artificial person.

In keeping with the theme of this particular thread and to answer Steve's question ( not an easy thing to do with such a confused and lawless rabble). But, the one demand of the OWS movement should be to reign in the power of the corporate Leviathan.

Isn't that what they are really protesting about? On the other hand, perhaps they should do a Bill Whittle and go home and be grateful for corporations.

Tut

[tomder55]

But, the one demand of the OWS movement should be to reign in the power of the corporate Leviathan.

Isn't that what they are really protesting about?

Yup, (or at least the way the government has distorted capitalism with it's regulations designed to pick winners in the market place ;and to command and control the economy ), and it should be conducted in Washington DC ;not on the streets of NY and Oakland. The reason those protests have had any traction is because those cities are run by lib weenies.

We don't have to chop wood and hunt because corporations do these unpleasant things for us? NO, we don't have to do these things because this is the level of sophistication we are born into.

Please... we've seen how these protesters ,left to their own resources devolved into 'Lord of the Flies ' savages .

[tomder55]

On that basis Tom might be happy with opening the flood gates for a corporate exploitation of the 14 Amendment.

Ask the libs. The 14th amendment has been the key addition that propelled the US into a 20th century nanny-state (that and judicial activism that decided a farmer didn't have the right to grow wheat for his own personal use ).

Would I like the 14th amendment amended ? Absolutely .It is singularily responsible for the massive influx of illegal aliens .

[TUT317]

yup, (or at least the way the government has distorted capitalism with it's regulations designed to pick winners in the market place ;and to command and control the economy ), and it should be conducted in Washington DC ;not on the streets of NY and Oakland. The reason those protests have had any traction is because those cities are run by lib weenies.

Governments have always distorted capitalism, ever since the time of Adam Smith. That has always been a given.

There might be winners and losers when it comes to small business. You are not going to try and tell me multinationals are ever going to be losers in the face of regulation?

Please ....we've seen how these protesters ,left to their own resources devolved into 'Lord of the Flies ' savages .

[/QUOTE]


Lord of the Flies is just Hobbes revisited. So you support the nonsense expounded by Bill Whittle in the link?

Tut

[tomder55]

There might be winners and losers when it comes to small business. You are not going to try and tell me multinationals are ever going to be losers in the face of regulation?

No what I contend is that the regulations set up the conditions where multinationals and large so called too big to fail corporations exist.
It's a chicken and egg thing. Left to their own devices corporations have to compete with all comers and let the best one win. But increased regulations drive out the smaller competitors because the costs of compliance become prohibitive . Then the larger companies gobble up the market share and take advantage of the reduced competition.
Where you get it right is the relationship that emerges between these large companies and the government . Where you get it wrong is the cause .

So you support the nonsense expounded by Bill Whittle in the link?

Now why would I have posted it otherwise ?

[speechlesstx]

Dems were quick to criticize the eviction of course, but I just want to highlight one Democrat's comment:

Rep. John Larson (D-Conn.), a prominent supporter of the Occupy Wall Street activists, said Bloomberg’s move is no threat to the larger movement, which he characterized as “the embodiment of the frustrations of the American people.”

Much, much larger segments of America protested an overreaching government and they were mocked, criticized, insulted, called every nasty thing in the book - and that was just by elected Democrats. But a small group of malcontents that can't make up their mind what their "one demand" is embody the frustrations of the American people? Yeah, whatever, Americans are all ready to blow up Macy's and burn down New York (content warning):