[arcura]

JoeT,
Right you are and so is the passage you quoted.
Thank God for the holy Eucharist.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

This is the truth that nourishes; this is what the angle meant in John’s Apocalypse. The angel sent to John was to write what was seen and heard, to give testimony of the revelation of God’s Truth. His Truth is found in the Eucharist.

JoeT

Thank you Joe,

We agree the spiritual real presence of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit and received by faith toward all that God has spoken.

refer: (Matthew 4:4) It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.



~in Christ

[sndbay]

Thank you to everyone, I trust we have the answer to the thread's question.

As written:

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it]unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

The mystery of the seven churches was defined in (Revelation 1:20) as the seven candlesticks. AND [one] like unto the Son of man stood in the midst of all seven. (Revelation 1:13)

~ in FAITH

[arcura]

Yes I do believe we have answered the OP question well.
Fred

[JoeT777]

All:

This is an interesting prophetic vision in that it shines light on the early Church darkened by its antiquity. As in most every book in the New Testament it directs us to the promises of Christ for his eternal real presence, to be with his people always (John 6:32 sqq.), that which is offered to all (1 Cor. 11:23 sqq). Metaphorically, we are given the vision of the “bread of heaen”, Christ Himself.

Apocalypse of John – chapter 2, v12- v17
12 And to the angel of the church of Pergamus write: These things saith he that hath the sharp two-edged sword: 13 I know where thou dwellest, where the seat of Satan is. And thou holdest fast my name and hast not denied my faith. Even in those days when Antipas was my faithful witness, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have against thee a few things: because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaites. 16 In like manner do penance. If not, I will come to thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: To him that overcometh I will give the hidden manna and will give him a white counter: and in the counter, a new name written, which no man knoweth but he that receiveth it.

The vision concerns a significant town called Pegamus, (or Pergamon) located 16 miles inland from the Aegean Sea. Today it is called Bergama, Turkey; but in antiquity it was the capital city of the Kingdom of Pergamon in the Hellenistic period.

The first Christian Bishop of Pegamus was Antipas, which means "against all,” was martyred during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian in 92 A.D. He was placed in the belly of a large bronze bull which was placed over a fire. Antipas' feast is celebrated on April 11th by both the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches. Tradition holds that St. Antipas was a contemporary of the Apostle St. John and was likely ordained by St. John.

St. John's Apocolypse was likely written in exile on the island of Patmos between 95 A.D. and 100 A.D. According to the historian Eusebius St. John was banished to Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian for “the “word of God and for the testimony of Jesus” (Apoc 1:9). This dates the penning of the Apocalypse approximately 3 to 8 years after Antipas' death. This seems to be consistent with verse 13 which speaks of Antipas in the past tense. By some reckonings, this would have made St. John somewhere between 85 and 90 years old. These verses also mention Nicolas, or rather the Gnostic sect that arose out of the deacon's teachings. Nicolas was one of the “Seven” who were the first ordained to represent the Apostles (Cf. Acts 6:1-6). This sect scandalized the good name of Nicholas by ascribing its immoral, incestuous beliefs to him (Cf. Clement of Alexandria, Stromata II, XX). “Such also are those (who say that they follow Nicolaus, quoting an adage of the man, which they pervert, that the flesh must be abused. But the worthy man showed that it was necessary to check pleasures and lusts, and by such training to waste away the impulses and propensities of the flesh. But they, abandoning themselves to pleasure like goats, as if insulting the body, lead a life of self-indulgence; not knowing that the body is wasted, being by nature subject to dissolution; while their soul is buried in the mire of vice; following as they do the teaching of pleasure itself, not of the apostolic man.” These were severely depraved individuals. Their priests besieged Antipas to worship idols and deny his God. According to the Orthodox tradition, one bishop writes:

The priests stirred up the multitude, and they began to torment [Antipas] and to press him to deny Christ and worship idols. Antipas said to them: `When your so-called gods and lords of the universe are afraid of me, a mortal man, and have to flee the city, why do you not learn from this that all your faith is in vain. And the saint spoke further with them of the Christian faith as the only true and saving Faith. But they became incensed like wild beasts and dragged the aged Antipas before the temple of Artemis, where there stood an ox cast in bronze. They heated the ox and threw the servant of God inside. St Antipas, inside the red-hot ox, glorified God with thanksgiving, like Jonah in the whale and the Three Children in the burning fiery furnace. Antipas prayed for his flock and for the whole world until his soul parted from his exhausted body and went to join the angels in the Kingdom of Christ. He died under torture and was crowned with unfading glory in the year 92. http://www.pomog.org/prologue/April/24.htm

And what do we make of Balaam who taught the King of Moab how to set stumbling blocks before Israel by eating an unholy fornication. Balac, the Moab king, paid Balaam a diviner's wage to curse Israel. God intervened and caused Balaam to bless Israel and prophesize the better part of Israel's history. His vision seems to include a Messianic prophecy, “I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not near. A star shall rise out of Jacob and a sceptre shall spring up from Israel”. After several attempts to curse Israel were reversed by God, Balaam returned home. There he managed to convince a Boabite woman to seduce some in Israel into apostasy. As a result, there seems to have been a great plague kill 24,000 Israelites.

To sum up these verses of the Apocalypse is the message to stand strong "against all” while suffering in Christ. Those like Balaam, putting stumbling blocks before the children of God, teaching corruption under the pretext of mercy, will find themselves confounded by their own curses. Those however who overcome this will receive the real presence of Christ, the Eucharist, seeming hidden from the rest of these. And too, receiving eternal life becoming an adopted son of God. Overcoming the immorality of Balaam and the Nicolaites, the perversion of the Apostles teachings of Christ, the Church will receive power over nations.

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT,
Thanks much for that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[A.Adamson]

The "stone" here is a unique word in Scripture (psephos) from verb psephalao: to maipulate or verify by contact: to search for or handle, touch. It is use as a pebble worn smooth by handling. It's like a counter, a ballot, a vote.

OK, what it really is? An object totally worn out by contact, that is God's contact with it.

It is like a playing piece in a game. Like your "king" piece in a chess game. You use it, it is your presence in the game. Maybe like a "cursor" is your presence into video/internet world!

Some words have several meanings, mutiples, especially in prophecy. Job 11:6.

So, firstly it is Scripture. God controlled its writing. (But later Satan's brood tries to mix it!)

It is the person given the "new name" who has worn out his Bibles LOGICALLY STUDYING IT.
(John 14:16 & 26 The Holy Ghost/Spirit is the comforter is the Spirit/Mentality of Truth: so this spirit is TRUTH, and a key tool of Truth is to use LOGIC!) Use LOGIC to solve for identities, finally the name!

This wearing out has also worn out the studier/logician doing this!

This logican has become thus a tool of playing piece of God! He literally has become this "stone."

It has cost him many years of pondering, research, logical analysis, false leads, new attempts. The glimmer of an answer came some time ago, but took more effort to be certain the answer solves all uses.

As for the fact it is white... well, that is part of the puzzle that gets into the name which does have some link to whiteness. Well, God himself is light, in him is no darkness. (I John 1:5) And Jesus is the Son of God. Mark 1:1 And Jesus is also made in the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4. So he has similar image: light. See how this logical thing goes?

Also not that a man of logical tools, a man of wisdom, will be able to know the answer, says MICAH 6:9, a line almost never quoted in regard to this myster name.

But you yearlly have to solve a number of "mysteries" before this one fully folds.

You really ought to dig into the nature of our roots. Know identities. Know the things in the beginning, being logical and ALWAYS CONSISTENT WITH SCIENCE FACTS. (for example the Earth is billions of years old. Life beegan almost as long ago. Early human types existed long before ADAM of the Bible. A "day" in Genesis is yowm, canmean 24-hour OR A LONG TIME SPAN! It's 147 years an "age' in Gen 47:28. So the creation days were long time spans, to agree with facts of geoscience. Facts are Truth. Use such facts to interpret Scripture, don't deny facts!

And be very curious about Genesis words, really know what they mean.

And know who is addressed in each line of Scripture. Knowhis race and lineage. It matters!

Always interpret lines so that a new line conforms withwhat was alsoready said or done, not vice versa.

Know that the Lord (YHWH Yaheweh) is supreme. His words are #1 Authority. (Even Jesus says hie is greater than himself. John 14:28. But note JEsus will on "day 3" become perfected. Luke 13:32. Thisis NOT abouthis resurrection AFTER THREE FULL DAYS & NIGHTS, like Jonas - so he was not in Tomb from Friday evening to early Sunday, only about 36 hours! Figure how he was in Tomb 72 hours! Look at our original Holy Days,never revokedby Jesus, who says to keep all of the law of God, and teach others, to be "great" in his kingdom, Mat 5:17-19. Obey Godlaw not man's laws!! His law is PERFECT!! Ps 19:7.

Just keep digging in the Bible like a Geologist uses various bits of geology information and models to get a better grasp of Earth's interior. Then he can really hunt ore successfully! Solve Bible mysteries! We think "spirit" is just a feeling, and emotion. It is FACTS. LOGIC. Hunt wisely. Work constantly!

It took me many years to solve most Bible Mysteries. You can even know very close to when Jesus will return... not many years now! Yes, Children of Light are to know it. I Thes 5:4-6. To really dig into that andhow we are now to rush to obey bible law , and get out of manmade hell "babylon" government and money and false religion and humanism, and to solve some puzzles, see www.christmarkview.webs.com

As for the name, IF you are called (not all humans are! John 17:9), you will find the name given to you, after you exhaust yourself at hunting logically in Truth! I have been shown the name. I have the so-called white stone. Actually, he also gave me a literal white stone too, with the name written in a system I had glimpsed as an early "code" system. Possibly I'm the only one to have it so far in the modern "end time" period. I beleive Peter and 11 disciples had had it, as "keys" in Mat 16 & 18:18-20.

Get the keys for power needed to repel and disarm Satan and Satan's brood! John 14:14 etc.

Also James 5:13-15 surely is stronger if you use the new name of our returning Warrior (Rev 19:11+) just AFTER WE GET OUT OF BABYLON (Rev 18:1-19:3) which is out chief task right now! To do so we must get back to all of God's Laws. Keeping all original Sabbaths, a sign we know him. Exod 20:12-20. DO IT! Separate from manmade law, but that will infuriate manmade "Authorities." They and all evil can be turned off IF WE HAVE THE NAME AND CALL ON THE LORD VIA THIS! (Even Cain's sevenfold vengeance can be cut off IF WE ASK. See Gen 4 on this special gift he has used since antiquity to destroy God's CALLED, his Children.
((Who? Be really curious about such topics. Study and find solutions. Internet now makes it faster to find ideas. Check out what really makes sense, because Satan loads up piles of deceptive answers too!)

AMEN PS: May have typos, I'm really tired, doing too many things. It's late here!

[classyT]

A. Adamson,

According to the Bible man is 6,000 years old. How is that for a fact. When in doubt... I believe the Bible. Adam was the first man... there is another biblical fact, Eve was the first woman. I don't have to make these truths fit what Science has to say. I believe it by FAITH. Because without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. I don't make the bible fit with what Science says.


The bible says this about so called logic and using the natural man's thinking... The natural man perceives not the things of God neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

And one last thing... we are told to rightly divide the word of truth. From what I can read in your post you are completely mixing law with Grace

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer here, but I do not believe you can figure out what your new name will be, nor do I think you have been given a white stone already. You must know that sounds a tad bit nuts. Sorry.

[dwashbur]

A. Adamson,

According to the Bible man is 6,000 years old. How is that for a fact. When in doubt...i believe the Bible. Adam was the first man...there is another biblical fact, Eve was the first woman. I don't have to make these truths fit what Science has to say. I believe it by FAITH. Because without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. I don't make the bible fit with what Science says.

The Bible never says that the earth is 6000 years old. We know from the first chapter of Matthew that some genealogies skip whole blocks of generations, so counting genealogies the way Ussher did is unreliable. And we know that the word "day" in Hebrew has an incredibly flexible range of meaning. A. Adamson already pointed this out, and s/he is correct. There's no getting around it without ignoring tons of evidence.

I'm into astronomy as well as scuba diving (I like to explore in both directions, I guess). I look at the Andromeda galaxy and I see it, not as it is now, but as it was 2.5 million years ago, because that's how far away it is. So it's at least 2.5 million years old. The universe, therefore, is at least that old. We can see objects that are even further away, some into the billions of light-years. So they have to be at least that old. There's not reason not to conclude that the earth is of a similar age. It's simple logic, and it doesn't contradict the actual language of the Bible. It contradicts some people's interpretation of it, and their interpretation is wrong.

The Hebrew of Genesis 1 isn't strong enough to carry all the nonsense that some people try to pile onto it. That's a fact. May as well get used to it.

[classyT]

Dave,

Sorry, but I didn't say the earth was 6000 years old... I said MAN was. I believe God.

[dwashbur]

Dave,

Sorry, but i didn't say the earth was 6000 years old...i said MAN was. I believe God.

As they might say in German, "mein goof." I stand corrected.

But the Bible doesn't even say that man is 6000 years old. As I already mentioned, the genealogical method is flawed because the Bible doesn't tell us everything. There are gaps that we know about and gaps that we don't know about. More important, though, is this: it really doesn't matter. Whether mankind is 6000 years old or 100,000 years old or 2 million years old isn't important. Did God create man directly? Sure. Did Adam look just like us? Probably not. Did he look like an australopithecus? I have no idea, but I see no reason why it isn't feasible. What matters is that God created humanity, and created us for a purpose. When it happened is irrelevant.