Ask Me Help Desk - Hidden Manna and White Stone

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Who can hear what the Spirit says to the churches? Scripture says that those who overcome will be given to eat hidden manna, and a white stone. According to this scripture, a new name was written, that no man knows except he that receives it.

When we look at (Revelation 3:12) we are told clearly whom the new name will be written upon.

When we look at (John 6:58) we are told a bread that we were given , because it came down from heaven similar to the manna in which the angel eat as their bread of life. A bread of truth, and life. Not like the manna the fathers did eat in hungry and died.

The bread in which Jesus told satan is the bread of life. REFER: Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word of God.

Is there anyone who can offer more evidence of the WORD of GOD being the bread of life?

And who can give evidence of the white stone?

Snd,

Jesus is the bread of Life and the evidence is in the word of God. And of course manna is a picture of the Lord Jesus as well.

I have NO idea how to answer the question of evidence of the white stone?? It would seem from scripture it is a stone the Lord will give to us when we are with HIM. From what I can glean it appears he would give each believer a stone with a special name that only we will understand. It will be between the believer and the Lord Jesus. That is written to the believer in Christ.

ClassyT,

The concordance gives refer of a white stone being known to the ancients as a "victory" stone. So perhaps it will be some type of purity of the soul, so one is able to enter into the Kingdom. ( ? )

Snd,

I will have to study it out better. Perhaps someone else has a better answer. I always ASSUMED it would be for all true believers one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sndbay

ClassyT,

The concordance gives refer of a white stone being known to the ancients as a "victory" stone. So perhaps it will be some type of purity of the soul, so one is able to enter into the Kingdom. ( ? )

The Greek text says '' a white vote'', meaning a vote of innosence a vote of justice.
It means that He will judge us not!

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Snd,

I will have to study it out better. Perhaps someone else has a better answer. I always ASSUMED it would be for all true believers one day.

Agree, and I still trust it will be a victory like the stone mentioned in REFER:Zec 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam7gur

The Greek text says '' a white vote'', meaning a vote of innosence a vote of justice.
It means that He will judge us not!

Thanks Adam,

1) a small worn smooth stone, a pebble

a) in the ancient courts of justice the accused were condemned by black pebbles and the acquitted by white

2) a vote (on account of the use of pebbles in voting)

So it would be safe to assume that it will be our judgement stone of white to those who overcome? "VICTORY"

Quote:

Originally Posted by sndbay

Thanks Adam,

1) a small worn smooth stone, a pebble

a) in the ancient courts of justice the accused were condemned by black pebbles and the acquitted by white

2) a vote (on account of the use of pebbles in voting)

So it would be safe to assume that it will be our judgement stone of white to those who overcome?

I think so my friend!

I'm in on this question late:

I agree with classyT; Jesus is THE bread. But it is such a difficult teaching that even the disciples who followed Him (not the 12) left Him.

Jn 6:32-66

32 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34 "Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread ."
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41 At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42 They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
43 "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread , he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62 What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
NIV

The following quote is an excerpt of Matthew-Henry's Commentary:

"1. The hidden manna, the influences and comforts of the Spirit of Christ in communion with him, coming down from heaven into the soul, from time to time, for its support, to let it taste something how saints and angels live in heaven. This is hidden from the rest of the world - a stranger intermeddles not with this joy; and it is laid up in Christ, the ark of the covenant, in the holy of holies.

2. The white stone, with a new name engraven upon it. This white stone is absolution from the guilt of sin, alluding to the ancient custom of giving a white stone to those acquitted on trial and a black stone to those condemned. The new name is the name of adoption: adopted persons took the name of the family into which they were adopted. None can read the evidence of a man's adoption but himself; he cannot always read it, but if he persevere he shall have both the evidence of sonship and the inheritance.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

Other commentators teach variations of the above. Most center in on the "hidden" and the secret name. These are considered special things given NOW by the Holy Spirit to us who have received Jesus' promises in good faith. They are given to assure us of His favor towards each of us who trust Him in this life as well as the one to come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revdrgade

I agree with classyT; Jesus is THE bread.

Yes for sure Christ is the bread of life, but Christ was also the Word made flesh. This gives us the full assurance that when Jesus spoke with satan concerning bread to eat, in Luke 4:4, the Word of God was the bread of life in which we live by.

REFER: Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word of God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revdrgade

Other commentators teach variations of the above. Most center in on the "hidden" and the secret name. These are considered special things given NOW by the Holy Spirit to us who have received Jesus' promises in good faith. They are given to assure us of His favor towards each of us who trust Him in this life as well as the one to come.

The scripture of (Revelation 2:17) is not considered to be NOW, but clearly said to be taking place when John was in the spirit on the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10)
So it can not be considered special things given NOW by the Holy Spirit to us who have received Jesus promise in good faith.

The scripture of (Revelation 2:17) is not considered to be NOW, but clearly said to be taking place when John was in the spirit on the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10)
So it can not be considered special things given NOW by the Holy Spirit to us who have received Jesus promise in good faith.[/QUOTE]

Let me restate what I meant. There are so many places where the phrase, "they will do this or that" (future tense) in the revelation to John, that it is most certainly speaking about the future. Yet many theologians also put a limitation on how far in the future the things promised can go.. They may also consider that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer being given. But that doesn't make their interpretation/consideration correct.

I simply said that some of the commentaries that I read spoke of hidden things mentioned were for our assurance. Here is a sample:

Revelation 2:17
[And will give him a white stone] There has been a great variety of opinion in regard to the meaning of this expression, and almost no two expositors agree. Illustrations of its meaning have been sought from Grecian, Hebrew, and Roman customs, but none of these have removed all difficulty from the expression. The general sense of the language seems plain, even though the allusion on which it is founded is obscure, or even unknown. It is, that the Saviour would give him who overcame a token of his favor which would have some word or name inscribed on it, and which would be of use to him alone, or intelligible to him only: that is, some secret token which would make him sure of the favor of his Redeemer, and which would be unknown to other people. The idea here would find a correspondence in the evidences of his favor granted to the soul of the Christian himself; in the pledge of heaven thus made to him, and which he would understand, but which no one else would understand.
The things, then, which we are to look for in the explanation of the emblem are two-what would thus be a token of his favor, and what would explain the fact that it would be intelligible to no one else.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Rv 2:17
Christ is the true bread from heaven (Jn 6:31-33,48-51) and that may be the idea here. Those faithful to Christ will have transcendent fellowship with him. Swete takes it to be "the life-sustaining power of the Sacred Humanity now hid with Christ in God."
A white stone pseefon leukeen. This old word for pebble (from psaoo, to rub) was used in courts of justice, black pebbles for condemning, white pebbles for acquitting. The only other use of the word in the New Testament is in Ac 26:10, where Paul speaks of "depositing his pebble" kateenengka pseefon or casting his vote. The white stone with one's name on it was used to admit one to entertainments and also as an amulet or charm.

A new name written onoma kainon gegrammenon. Perfect passive predicate participle of grafoo. Not the man's own name, but that of Christ (Heitmuller, Im Namen Jesu, p. 128-265). See Rv 3:12 for the name of God so written on one. The man himself may be the pseefos on which the new name is written. "The true Christian has a charmed life" (Moffatt).
(from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003 by Biblesoft, Inc. Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament. Copyright © 1985 by Broadman Press.)

Revelation 2:17
A new name. Some explain the new name of God or of Christ (compare Rv 3:12); others, of the recipient's own name. "A new name however, a revelation of his everlasting title as a son of God to glory in Christ, but consisting of and revealed in those personal marks and signs of God's peculiar adoption of "himself," which he and none other is acquainted with" (Alford). Bengel says: "Wouldst thou know what kind of a new name thou wilt obtain? Overcome. Before that thou wilt ask in vain, and after that thou wilt soon read it inscribed on the white stone."
(from Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

The hidden manna takes us back to the Old Testment story. (Exodus16} As childern of Israel
Wandering in the wilderness they ran short of food. Theybegan to complain, so God fed them "manna fron heaven". When the manna fell, Moses told Aron to collect a pot full
And hide it in the ark as a reminder to future generations that GOD had met there needs. Since we cannot see Jeasus, He is our "hidden manna". He promises that we will "never hunger spiritually" because He is allways with us. [John 6:35]
The white stone is a reference to the way votes were cast at the courts of justice in
John's day. When a case was tried, the jurors voted by dropping stones into an urn, Black for guilty or white for innocent. Jesus promises that overcomers will be found innocent when God judges all things. Because of the shed "blood of Jesus'' overcomers are set free from the penalty from the "penalty of sin".
The new name that no one knows has many interpretations, but the most common ones seems to be that overcomers will receive a white stone bearing a secret name of Jesus.
It will symbolize that each one of us has a special, intimate relationship with Him.
We will know Him by a very personal name that no one knows . [Isa. 62:2]
Think about it. We will be innocent, never hunger, and have a personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus promises to take care of His people and provide for their future.
Overcomers will enter God's glory with many rewards from a Lord who loves each one
Of us.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Jesus is the Word and also is the bread of life as Jesus said.
The Eucharist is therefore the bread of life as Jesus instituted the New Covenant.
As He said when He took bread, broke and blessed it, "Take eat, This IS my body."
Tie that in with as recorded in John, 6; 33. "For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
34. They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread."
35. Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
And as for the white stone it is still used today along with the black stone in voting.
The white stone is acceptance.
The black is rejection.
I have participated in such elections several times.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

The hidden manna takes us back to the Old Testment story. (Exodus16} As childern of Israel
wandering in the wilderness they ran short of food. Theybegan to complain, so God fed them "manna fron heaven". When the manna fell, Moses told Aron to collect a pot full
and hide it in the ark as a reminder to future generations that GOD had met there needs. since we cannot see Jeasus, He is our "hidden manna". He promises that we will "never hunger spiritually" because He is allways with us. [John 6:35]

Maggie3, The fact that manna was collected as you mentioned, it is written that it would be kept for generations in (Exodus 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt)

This thought can example the LORD's Day which ideally matched to the vision John was taken in Revelation on the LORD's DAY. AND also that Same DAY those that overcome will be gathered and taken by Christ as told of in (Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie 3

The white stone is a reference to the way votes were cast at the courts of justice in
John's day. When a case was tried, the jurors voted by dropping stones into an urn, Black for guilty or white for innocent. Jesus promises that overcomers will be found innocent when God judges all things. Becouse of the shed "blood of Jesus'' overcomers are set free from the penalty from the "penalty of sin".
The new name that no one knows has many interpretations, but the most common ones seems to be that overcomers will receive a white stone bearing a secret name of Jesus.
It will symbolize that each one of us has a special, intimate relationship with Him.
We will know Him by a very personal name that no one knows . [Isa. 62:2]
Think about it. We will be innocent, never hunger, and have a personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus promises to take care of His people and provide for their future.
Overcomers will enter God's glory with many rewards from a Lord who loves each one
of us.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Thank you Maggie3

Sndbay, I appreciate you, and the contribution you make. I love learning more and more about God's Word. Thank you.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

The verse doesn't render well in some translations. It's better rendered in the Vulgate, or here in the Douay-Rheims. “I will give the hidden manna and will give him a white counter”

The Greeks had a custom of voting with little round and flat white beach pebbles. Later they were replaced with circular pieces of wood or ivory. On the face of the pebble or pieces of circular wood the favored candidates name would be written, these round waffer shaped objects resemble the Eucharist and metaphoricly served a similar purpose. Catholics would render this verse to reference the Eucharist, the real presence of Christ. It's the only real explanation that fits the verse. And in taking of the Eucharist we obtain the 'bread of life' giving suffrage to his name.

JoeT

JoeT,
Thanks for that explanation.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeT777

The verse doesn't render well in some translations. It's better rendered in the Vulgate, or here in the Douay-Rheims. “I will give the hidden manna and will give him a white counter”

The Greeks had a custom of voting with little round and flat white beach pebbles. Later they were replaced with circular pieces of wood or ivory. On the face of the pebble or pieces of circular wood the favored candidates name would be written, these round waffer shaped objects resemble the Eucharist and metaphoricly served a similar purpose. Catholics would render this verse to reference the Eucharist, the real presence of Christ. It's the only real explanation that fits the verse. And in taking of the Eucharist we obtain the 'bread of life' giving suffrage to his name.

JoeT

( Adam's post #5 ) clarified the white stone by the greek meaning.

As for the hidden manna, we that follow Christ Jesus as Christians, believe Christ is the bread of life. And look forward to the LORD'S DAY, when Christ will gather us and nourish us in TRUTH. That will be a day when satan will not be able to beguile us or be in our face with false lies of temptations.
REFER Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The hidden/concealed manna is bread of life/TRUTH/CHRIST JESUS ( Matthew 4:4 - John 1:4 -John 1:1 ) The bread of life is every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God and what we live by forever and ever.

Only concealed or hidden because Christ is in heaven on the right hand of the FATHER.(visually not seen yet always with us)

Christians eat the same spiritual meat; and drink the same spiritual drink: for they drink of the spiritual Rock that is with them now and forever, and that Rock is Christ. and it is HIS promise that HE would not leave us comfortless (John 14:17-18)

1 Corinthians 10:16-17 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

That ONE bread and ONE body is Christ Jesus forever and ever.

~ If a man love me, he will keep my words (John 14:23)

sndbay,
Yes we Catholics and others are partakers of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It is called the Eucharist and was instituted by Jesus as the New Covenant; a covenant of salvation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

This is the truth that nourishes; this is what the angle meant in John’s Apocalypse. The angel sent to John was to write what was seen and heard, to give testimony of the revelation of God’s Truth. His Truth is found in the Eucharist.

Our fathers did eat manna in the desert … but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven and giveth life to the world … I am the bread of life. …Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven: that if any man eat of it, he may not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. … I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. … he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever… (John 6: 31 sqq. - Emphases is mine )

JoeT