[talaniman]

I didn't say suck up, Clete, I said slave. As in a state of mind that controls behavior that perpetrate the system. As in slave to monied interest. Where self worth and value is measured in dollars.

And no Tom, my life doesn't suck actually, its just that I have no money. At least not enough to think I am above anyone else.

[tomder55]

I didn't say suck up, Clete, I said slave. As in a state of mind that controls behavior that perpetrate the system. As in slave to monied interest. Where self worth and value is measured in dollars.

Sounds like a very secular progresssive view of the world . I believe Clete has values that transcend such basal views.

However ,I agree that it's that type of perception that the President has tried to exploit throughout his public career .
What I found interesting is that he is turning his accusing finger into the faces of those he used to champion . I think he is at an end game because his attempt at applying his philosophy to a workable governing system has inevidibly failed . It can't be he that is a failure... so it must be us.

The truth is that it is years of progressive policies that has led to the country you see. It's entitlement mentality that keeps people on the dependency plantation.

[paraclete]

I didn't say suck up, Clete, I said slave. As in a state of mind that controls behavior that perpetrate the system. As in slave to monied interest. Where self worth and value is measured in dollars.

And no Tom, my life doesn't suck actually, its just that I have no money. At least not enough to think I am above anyone else.

Tal

I measure my worth not in money but in what I achieve. I have watched things inexplicably happen for a long time, and never once have I been worse off even though the days seemed very dark for a while. I understand what the slave mentality is and I understand how we are manipulated. You want money, learn to let go.

[talaniman]

Sounds like a very secular progresssive view of the world . I believe Clete has values that transcend such basal views.

However ,I agree that it's that type of perception that the President has tried to exploit throughout his public career .
What I found interesting is that he is turning his accusing finger into the faces of those he used to champion . I think he is at an end game becuse his attempt at applying his philosophy to a workable governing system has inevidibly failed . It can't be he that is a failure ......so it must be us.

The truth is that it is years of progressive policies that has led to the country you see. It's entitlement mentality that keeps people on the dependency plantation.

Obama had a rude awakening, he wanted change but runs into a brick wall of opposition. There is no greater force in the world as the unified Republican party, but to his credit, he knows when to pivot, and go on the offensive, by unifying his own supporters.

You cannot acknowledge the progressive agenda, that's been happening for centuries, without acknowledging the counter balancing group that opposes that agenda, regressives. More commonly known as conservatives. They want nothing more than a submissive dependent population, under the guise of pulling ones self up by their boot straps. The problem is that they keep the masses bootless, and promote the idea that they know best who to pass boots too. That is the plantation mentality of which we are slaves too. The idea that the few know what's best for the many.

I will submit that the government of we the people should be dependable.

[paraclete]

Tal I think that group you are referring to are called reactionaries, that is, they do nothing of themselves they just react against what others attempt to do, for such a group nothing is ever good enough, any change to the established order is too much, and any progressive idea must be vehmentally opposed.

[tomder55]

It depends on your perspective. I would argue that the real progressive force in history was putting limits on the power of the prince.

You see ;these OWS people have it all backwards. You think the corporate fat cats on the 20th floor fear them while they terrorize the tellers on the 1st floor ?

No of course not ! What these people are promoting fits very well into the corporatists agenda . The more they demand government intervention the more they promote the agenda of so called 'crony capitalism' (which is actually crony socialism ).
That is the very reason why some of the biggest 'crony capitalists 'like GE chief executive Jeffrey Immelt and Blackrock chief Larry Fink,and George Soros have spoken favorably of the movement.

[paraclete]

Don't be diluded Tom. If the outcome of OWS is greater regulation these people don't want it, that is why it hasn't happened when the need was obvious. They know it takes more than grass roots shouting in the streets, it takes grass roots shouting in the ballot box. Socialist governments are on the nose at the moment in many places irrespective of what the "masses" in the streets say.

[tomder55]

You are not reading it correctly . The part of the Roosevelt New Deal that was ruled unconsitutional was a series of regulations that would've codified into law ,through regulation, the consolidation of industry into monopolies and cartels ,into the hand of the few large corporations (NIRA). They would've gone on to fix prices ;and stifle competition .

Hugh S. Johnson ;the main architect of the NRA disliked what he called 'cut-thoat competition' in the market place and admittedly modelled the NRA after Italian Fascist corporativism .
[you will recall that the blue eagle Obama campaign emblem of 2008 was very similar in design to the blue eagle NRA emblem]

Don't dilude yourself Clete . It's conservative that want more competition in the market place .It's conservatives that argued against the bailout of so called 'too big to fail' . I assure you that it's limosine liberals that have created the current business environment .

[cdad]

Obama had a rude awakening, he wanted change but runs into a brick wall of opposition. There is no greater force in the world as the unified Republican party, but to his credit, he knows when to pivot, and go on the offensive, by unifying his own supporters.

Im having trouble understanding this. When Obama took office they (his own party) had majority rule and didn't need republicans to pass anything that they had wanted on their wish list. They had that advantage for 2 years. Are you saying his own party didn't support him and he had to go to extremists to get what he wanted ?

[tomder55]

The truth is that the bucket list stimulus was loaded with crony favoritism. The truth is that the Dems courted all the major health care companies while crafting Obamacare . The truth is that Obama was the biggest beneficiary of corporate donations in the 2008 race.

The truth is that he got his agenda in the 1st 2 years and now he's scrambling because it was a bust.

[tomder55]

The truth is that the bucket list stimulus was loaded with crony favoritism. The truth is that the Dems courted all the major health care companies while crafting Obamacare . The truth is that Obama was the biggest beneficiary of corporate donations in the 2008 race.

The truth is that he got his agenda in the 1st 2 years and now he's scrambling because it was a bust.

[NeedKarma]

The truth is that the bucket list stimulus was loaded with crony favoritism. The truth is that the Dems courted all the major health care companies while crafting Obamacare . The truth is that Obama was the biggest beneficiary of corporate donations in the 2008 race.

The truth is ALL US politicians are guilty of this, they are all in the back pockets of corporations. You just refuse to accept that your side is involved as well.

[tomder55]

You would only say that if you have not been reading my posts . I give the Republics no passes for that .

[NeedKarma]

I give the Republics no passes for that .

But rarely if ever do you start disparaging posts about them like you do the democrats. Link us up to a few republican corporate whores and your condemnation of them.

[talaniman]

Im having trouble understanding this. When Obama took office they (his own party) had majority rule and didnt need republicans to pass anything that they had wanted on thier wish list. They had that advantage for 2 years. Are you saying his own party didnt support him and he had to go to extremists to get what he wanted ?

They had an advantage in the house, but republicans filibustered everything in the senate, including the majority of his judicial appointments. Protecting the one percent from any tax increases is what they are after, and making way for a return to republican control of congress and the white house is there only agenda.

Bills start in the house, and all the house has passed is 3 different abortion bills to defund woman's health. I watched many senate hearings on Cspan, and no matter what the agreements were the final bill was always defeated, or filibustered by republicans. Even when all the amendments they wanted were included in the final draft.

Sure it would seem with 60 democrats a bill would breeze through, but when dems had 60 votes, one republican filibusters, when they need a few republican votes, they got none. Conservative democrats, and Leiberman (I), almost always side with republicans, and a simple majority doesn't work in the senate.

[paraclete]

Strange system where the majority doesn't rule. Certainly doesn't sound like democracy

[talaniman]

It's a democracy with checks, and balances, to ensure that the majority can't run over the minority. Our democracy depends on consensus, which doesn't come easy and often gridlock is the result. The people have a two year window on which to decide changes of the officials. The more that vote, and the more who are informed, the more that we can move forward.

[paraclete]

Tal I had often heard that congress is the opposite of progress but in this context senate is short for senile and obstinate

[talaniman]

Yes it can be but its human nature to protect ones interest, be that right or wrong.

[tomder55]

The Senate is the flawed construct of a compromise. It had some value when Senators were selected by the state legislatures ;before progressives got the 17th amendment passed.