[excon]

Hello again, dad:

I don't know from Wikkipedia... If Jim Beam is "decriminalized", then I want my Maui Wowie to be "decriminalized".

excon

[cdad]

Hello again, dad:

I don't know from Wikkipedia... If Jim Beam is "decriminalized", then I want my Maui Wowie to be "decriminalized".

excon

Yes my friend. That is what it means. Its regulated without the penalties. Although you still aren't allowed to make your own. Drugs could have a simaler variation so if you want to be a commercial grower your still going to need that permit. Or get better cammo to cover it up :)

[slapshot_oi]

Obviously there will always be a black marcket not just for drugs but for smokes,alchol and stolen electrical equipment. . . Alchol is sold but not everyone is addicted to it, you can use or abuse drugs.

If you become an adict then it is a health issue, and the money they use on the 'waR ON DRUGS' SHOULD BE SPENT on health care for addicts.

Wisdom spoken here.

So maybe I argue not for the LEGALITY of drugs, just the end of this "war". Educate the masses on the reality of things. THAT is how you fight battles.

The only way to end it all, is to legalize it all. True, education does work. It will stop some of the youth from using, at least for a while, but, it's not a permanent solution, and it also has no bearing on the cartel related deaths you mentioned. The only way to stop that mess is to take the market share away and open the drug trade to the public, i.e. legalize it. This is marketing 101.

[Aurora_Bell]

Just making sure because it sounded like you were making a case for decriminalization. Whereby there are still some controls in place (like age of consent and age to purchase) but penalties removed for the consenting adult that wishs to embibe.

Im more for decriminalization and a portion of the profits being returned to rehab then outright legalization.

I'm with you there Dad.

[martinizing2]

The only effect that making something illegal has is to make it more expensive. Which puts the money in the hands of the mafia, gangs, and assorted other criminals.
Lots and lots of money which gives them power to expand.

It costs billions to keep the people locked up when their only crime was getting high. And as has been stated ,that money could be used to do some good in treatment , education, and health care.

This , as Ex said, is a health issue and lack of real education about drugs that should be taught in school.
But it is the fact that it is also a moral issue to so many that keeps it where it is now, fueling the growth of gangs , crime, and violence instead of combating it.

If it is legalized , it would take the majority of the money out of criminal hands where it could be put to better use helping those with problems and not locking them up with the hard core to get educated in bigger and better ways to increase the problem that is already out of control.

It has never been a war on drugs. It is, and has been, a war on Americans .

Alcohol and tobacco cost more in health care and ruin more lives than all the other drugs combined . Why are they not illegal ?
Oh that's right , it was tried and failed miserably and got completely out of control until it was legalized again.

If we don't learn from the past we will be repeating the same mistakes.We need to stop judging the morality and address the reality of what it is doing to our population.

[southamerica]

The only way to end it all, is to legalize it all. True, education does work. It will stop some of the youth from using, at least for a while, but, it's not a permanent solution, and it also has no bearing on the cartel related deaths you mentioned. The only way to stop that mess is to take the market share away and open the drug trade to the public, i.e. legalize it. This is marketing 101.

You're right. I just fight the fight that I know well :). I am not equipped to argue for legalization the way I am equipped to argue for education.

Martin and Ex have done it splendidly well.

By the way, Martin... amazing post!

[cdad]

I am not equipped to argue for legalization the way I am equipped to argue for education.

Your equiptment looks fine to me :)

Don't worry about it. Present it as you feel it should be since this is an opinion post. Be yourself.

[martinizing2]

Your equiptment looks fine to me :)

Dont worry about it. Present it as you feel it should be since this is an opinion post. Be yourself.

I concur with the wise man with good eyesight from California.

[QLP]

I find this such a thorny problem to get my head around.

Here in the UK cannabis was downgraded from a class B to a class C drug some years ago, meaning that possession would be unlikely to result in prosecution unless the amount suggested the holder was a supplier. The good news, use of cannabis, especially amongst the age group 16-24 fell. The bad news, admissions to psychiatric hospitals for cannabis induced pyschosis rose alarmingly. It seems those who were already taking cannabis took this as a green light to take stronger and stronger skunk and many of them came a cropper. Also, whilst cannabis use fell, cocaine use rose.

In addition we also had a relaxation of alcohol laws. Where previously the availability of alcohol was limited - pubs had specifically permitted licensing hours - alcohol became freely available pretty much any time. This was felt to be a way of putting a stop to binge-drinking as it was felt that if people could get their drink whenever they wanted they would be more relaxed about it and not feel the need to drink themselves senseless before closing time. Apparently many studies were done on drinking cultures worlwide to come to this solution. The result - an explosion in binge drinking, alcohol related violence, and alcohol related medical admissions.

The political head-scratching continues. Do we relax things further or tighten them back up? I'm not surprised the politicians can't decide. I couldn't call it.

It seems a certain percentage of this popluation have a desire to get mindless regardless of what you do about it. I don't understand the appeal so I haven't a clue how to tackle it.

I'm staying right here on the fence until I see a clear reason to jump either way.

[excon]

It seems a certain percentage of this popluation have a desire to get mindless regardless of what you do about it. I don't understand the appeal so I haven't a clue how to tackle it.

Hello QLP:

I agree with you.. But, what is there TO do? Keep them home and off the highway.. But, to PREVENT the majority from enjoying their diversions, because the minority can't handle it, is BONKERS.

excon

[QLP]

I have no idea. If someone wants to get quietly out of their skull that's their business. The trouble is they often don't do so quietly without affecting other people.

Provide nice safe padded rooms with free drugs supplies?

Serously I have no solutions. I might be getting splinters in my nether regions from staying on the fence but the only point I can really make is that I can see why there is much division of opinion.

[DrBill100]

Here is a cluster of drug war and marijuana info related sites that are current and informative.

DRCNet Online Library of Drug Policy

[martinizing2]

I find this such a thorny problem to get my head around.

Here in the UK cannabis was downgraded from a class B to a class C drug some years ago, meaning that possesion would be unlikely to result in prosecution unless the amount suggested the holder was a supplier. The good news, use of cannabis, especially amongst the age group 16-24 fell. The bad news, admissions to psychiatric hospitals for cannabis induced pyschosis rose alarmingly. It seems those who were already taking cannabis took this as a green light to take stronger and stronger skunk and many of them came a cropper. Also, whilst cannabis use fell, cocaine use rose.

In addition we also had a relaxation of alcohol laws. Where previously the availability of alcohol was limited - pubs had specifically permitted licensing hours, alcohol became freely available pretty much any time. This was felt to be a way of putting a stop to binge-drinking as it was felt that if people could get their drink whenever they wanted they would be more relaxed about it and not feel the need to drink themselves senseless before closing time. Apparently many studies were done on drinking cultures worlwide to come to this solution. The result - an explosion in binge drinking, alcohol related violence, and alcohol related medical admissions.

The political head-scratching continues. Do we relax things further or tighten them back up? I'm not surprised the politicians can't decide. I couldn't call it.

It seems a certain percentage of this popluation have a desire to get mindless regardless of what you do about it. I don't understand the appeal so I haven't a clue how to tackle it.

I'm staying right here on the fence until I see a clear reason to jump either way.

Great points and post.

Here , I hope is a nudge off that fence.

Cannabis induced psychosis is a term I have only very rarely encountered. And if four or five people got it that would be a considerable rise in my book.
I suspect the pot made other conditions they may have been suffering from more obvious , or added to it. (My opinion , I am no doctor)
But if it were the cause... I'd for sure have it.
The major affect it had on me was to keep me from losing my mind. I am convinced of this and have "studied" it's affect for about 45 years and am more than confidant and secure in my conclusion regardless of what anyone else says. I know what I have experienced.

You brought out another fact that has been consistent where drugs were legalized or decriminalized .
Use fell across all age groups , and crime rates decreased. Violent crime , robbery, theft, mugging dropped as it was no longer necessary to support the high prices illegal drugs demand.

It has worked wherever it has been implemented . Hopefully America will join the modern world one day with legal controlled drugs and healthcare for all who need it.
Hopefully.

[DrBill100]

QLP

It seems a certain percentage of this popluation have a desire to get mindless regardless of what you do about it. I don't understand the appeal so I haven't a clue how to tackle it.

On the button. Regardless of the substance or legal status there is a hard-core, severely addicted, treatment resistant group. About <3% of user population. I have found that true throughout history. Ex: type II (skid-row) alcoholism.

martinizing2

I suspect the pot made other conditions they may have been suffering from more obvious , or added to it.

Doctor or not, you have struck on the current medical consensus in relation to marijuana and psychosis, schizophrenia.

Of course, with any psychoactive substance there will be some that have adverse reaction which holds true for all drugs, legal, illegal, prescription.

[geesuzz]

Agreed the NHS in the UK surports drug users. There is a good system that if you admit to your doctor you have drug problems they can refer you to counciling and offer suport to come off adictive substances. In the UK you can be perscibed subutex (buprenorphine) for coming off heroin. It is much better then the methodone option which is much harder to come off and has a higher toxic level then heroin, it's also just as adictive. Either of these options you can take for free from the NHS if you don't work, or are on any other benefit.

In The US subutex is very expencive to everyone, methodone plan isn't free either which makes it obvious why people can't come off it. Not as much surport

CAnabis is legal in some staes if you get a perscription. The other states should follow suit... I hope.

[geesuzz]

But I think the US should have free health care for everyone.

Especially more surport for drug users.

[geesuzz]

There have been many studies done on the effects of taking drugs. One of the most resent was 'DR nutt's report'

He was hired by the UK Government to do a studies on drugs illegal or not.

He looked at 3 things

1. The damage to the body/ user (toxicity levels) and death toll, chances of death from long term use or the chance to kill you instantly.
2. How addictive the drug is.
3. Damage to society - crime etc.

Basically his findings were thought contrivers , but he had stuck to the research they wanted. They did not like what he found so he was SACKED/ FIRED lost his job.

Why ask for an expert opinion if you are just to dismiss his findings.

His findings are very interesting and you should research his work 'DR Nutt'

[geesuzz]

Make all drugs legal, 'the war on drugs' is massively disastrous. Make drug users non criminals.

[JudyKayTee]

Here's a wild leap with spidey senses all a-tingle.

I think Geesuzz and Dronit are the same person - read through the posts of both. Something very strange is going on.

Troll? Disturbed person? Something else?

[J_9]

Here's a wild leap with spidey senses all a-tingle.

I think Geesuzz and Dronit are the same person - read through the posts of both. Something very strange is going on.

Troll? Disturbed person? Something else?

Spidey senses are a little out of whack this time. They come from two different countries. ;)