[excon]

didn't know the Seals were working for Holder.

Hello again, tom:

It wasn't WHO did the police action. It's that it WAS a police action no matter WHO did it.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Exactly WHAT in the hell does biometrics have to do with someones application to immigrate to the USA?

It does now. BTW you said "I've taken someone all the way through the naturalization process" and now you specifically talk only about the application. Intellectually dishonest.

I don't see YOU posting any damn proof to back up your incessant inflamitory comments.

Which ones smooth?

[tomder55]

Ex, it was a take down ,an assassination . There was no intention of taking him into custody. Roosevelt didn't order Yamamoto arrested ;he ordered him killed . The same is true in this case. It was a CIA intel and US Special forces operation using US military hardware.

When he splashed off the carrier he got the ultimate waterboarding treatment.

[smoothy]

It does now. BTW you said "I've taken someone all the way through the naturalization process" and now you specifically talk only about the application. Intellectually dishonest.

Which ones smooth?

It was a major PITA... took me repeated visits... the idiots behind the counter were hired by affirmative action and were lucky to be able to dress thjemselves. Cost me thousands of dollars... and took several applications because the idiots couldn't decide what they were supposed to do.


There arte a LOT of different ways to come here, and even more different applications depending on circumstances and desired end-game. And if you are given the wrong forms for your situation, your applicatiuon is rejected and of course they keep the money and tell you to get ANOTHER form... send even MORE money and the waiting process starts all over.

YOU or your sister would not be dealing with the same applications, forms or offices. IF she was married to an American SHE might (assuming the forms haven't been revamped too)... but you wouldn't be doing anything. Her and her husband would be.

It was a PITA 20 years ago... (she was naturalized five years after she got her green card ).. and it hasn't gotten any easier since 9/11.

That's juut getting the green card. THen she has to wait years... apply for citizenship... you both use up some of you are vacation days in interviews so they make sure you actually know each other... SHE has to take some tests about her basic knowledge of the USA... and it is basic info. Easy to learn as long as she's not dumb as a stump. Eventually she's going to be given her naturalization date. Along the way you will be throwing wads of cash at the INS. And they have gone up several times since she got hers. Its significantly more expensive now.

In a nutshell that's it. Lots of time... lots of money... a few ulcers and grey hairs and if you are really lucky... only a few parking tickets from when the meter expired when you was in line. All the parking near the Arlington office were two hour meters... MAX... no free parking... not parking garages at that time. YOU waited in line longer than that.

Do I ever want to go through that with anyone again? Not on your life.

I have more respect for the people at the DMV than most of those I encountered at the INS. And I know people that like used car dealers better than the DMV.

And I saw complete idiots at two different INS offices (in two separate states)... not just that one.

I really hope the quality of employees has gone UP in those years since. I doubt it with the problems we have with illegals.

[paraclete]

Ah the joys of immigration, now smoothy if you could just tell the Iranians, Iraqi's, Afghans, etc, how difficult it is they would never leave home but of course with no border to speak of all those other americans just walk right in.

Getting back to the late lamented Osama bin Laden into a basket, when will we hear the true story? It started with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan

[Wondergirl]

when will we hear the true story? It started out with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan

It was always the Navy SEALS, never a rocket, he was always shot in the left eye, the helicopter had a hard landing, wouldn't relift, and had to be destroyed before they left, it's a million-dollar house instead of a cave, no kidney dialysis, was full of American products like Pepsi-Cola and ice cream bars, and was poorly guarded because he felt so sure of his safety so close to military housing.

[tomder55]

Clete ,in the fog of war ,often the initial reports require revisions.

WG's last sentence is the story to explore . I don't think there is any doubt about ISI complicity ;and perhaps senior levels of the Paki military and government . AND... if that's true then what are the chances of Riyadh and Beijing not knowing ?

[smoothy]

Ah the joys of immigration, now smoothy if you could just tell the Iranians, Iraqi's, Afghans, etc, how difficult it is they would never leave home but of course with no border to speak of all those other americans just walk right in.

getting back to the late lamented Osama bin Laden into a basket, when will we hear the true story? It started out with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan

Hell, numerically OUR biggest problems are with the people from SOUTH of the border. But to be fair, there are others.

LEGAL immigration isn't the problem... that may be a major PITA... but there are limits and controls. And I'm not a Xenophobe. Just someone that expects them to follow the law and the rules to get here. Its not a free-for-all and we have the right to set limits... they have no right to demand anything else or violate the law.

Obama's been flip-flopping so much on that story I am beginning to doubt if we really got him or not... I'm not so sure now its not a political stunt to prop up his failing policies, performance and ratings.

When he gets caught in a lie he flip-flops... then just shuts up and refuses to present any information. Like his College transcripts that would prove either he is or isn't anywhere near as smart as he claims he is. A smart guy would put up or shut up. A smart guy has the grades to back up his claims.

Actually that's very much common for someone who gets caught in a lie. Liars paint themselves into a corner most of the time.


They can give OBL this lengthy religious funeral... but they can't do the same thing for EVERY one of our own soldiers because it violates the liberals belief we have a mandated freedom from religion? Um... OK.

[tomder55]

They can give OBL this lengthy religious funeral... but they can't do the same thing for EVERY one of our own soldiers because it violates the liberals belief we have a mandated freedom from religion? Um... OK.

He can approve the release of thousands of pictures of prisoners being abused without worry of inflaming the Muslim street ;but a pix of a dead OBL is a no no .

Edit... I just checked ,and in fact, the President reversed his initial decision to release the abuse photos .

[BMI]

I actually think Obama would like the true story told; however, the Pentagon does its usual 'doctoring' of the truth to suit what they think the people want to hear and also justify the use of force.

As it stands, no body and no pictures. Obama must know this makes him look somewhat bad and I think he's just trying to reverse the damage done by the initial (and subsequent) falsehoods reported.

Also, no internet or cables in the compound, yet they recover laptops and other technology? Is that suppose to lessen the fact that they did not capture him, rather kill him?

I could see that spin. We couldn't subdue the unarmed 54 year old but that's OK, we got his computer!

Maybe he was writing a book?

Just read the above post and I do agree about the pic being too graphic to show. The video of JFK is still one of the most disturbing images I can recall seeing, ditto for the autopsy pics. Those were and still are very available for public consumption and were released at a time far more sensative to graphic content than today.

[tomder55]

I actually think Obama would like the true story told; however, the Pentagon does its usual 'doctoring' of the truth to suit what they think the people want to hear and also justify the use of force.

Ummm... he's the President. What he says goes. Actually it isn't a bad call;and is rooted in concern for troops safety .
Damned if he does ,damed if he don't . I guess he felt troops safety outweighed tin foil hat theories.

[smoothy]

Whatever the Pentagon may want to do or not... Obama is the Commander in Chief.

The video of the assault, I can understand not being released.

A picture of a tall dead bearded human turd... isn't going to reveal any tactics, etc.


A photo of a dead SOB is somehow inflamitory... but the fact the SOB was killed isn't somehow?

My opinion is F**K what they think. Shoot anyone that complains.

I still remember the video of that ugly toothless fat Palestinian Cow celebrating on 9/11. Want inflammatory... THAT was inflammatory.

[BMI]

Uhhh... you both think the President has the final say in every matter, every decision, period? Matter for another day I suppose.

Never mind this troops safety B.S. They are in a war for goodness sake, I doubt the release of a picture is going to do anymore damage to the reputation America in the East.

Furthermore, you can't just come out and say he's dead and then not provide ANYTHING, zilch. Although, when asked, Obama said it's him because he's seen the pictures. Rest easy all those who doubt, the Obama administration says so! Oh wait, Obama, the Commander-in-Chief (lookout!) said so.

[ITstudent2006]

Nevermind this troops safety B.S. They are in a war for goodness sake, I doubt the release of a picture is going to do anymore damage to the reputation America in the East.

Troop safety is B.S. now huh? Glad to see the things I fight for are all for not in your book. As much as you don't want to think so, it does come down to troop safety and mission completeness. It has nothing to do with reputation, as that is already out the window.

It's all about fueling the fire. The fire's there, its burning. Why throw fuel on it when troops are standing next to it?

Why do you want a picture so bad? Believe me, if Osama is not dead, we will know shortly enough.



The hardest part is yet to come...

[BMI]

Take it in context, or don't, I don't really care. The fact that you are involved in the military (if that's what you meant) does not change my opinion. It's not one of those say it to my face things, if it were, I'd do that too.

I submit it is not about troops safety at all. The danger was there before, it is still there, it always will be when war is present. It is really about confirming to the masses what actually happened, with truth and facts to support those truths.

I never supported any war with the East. The soldiers from my country and yours that flew over there to fight in it obviously have a different perspective than I do. That's fine, go fight. However, I don't support that action and those fighting accept the dangers they face when entering into service.

As for wanting the picture so bad, I never said I was longing for the picture, just a truthful recounting of the event. It's been 10 years of news and the aftermath is a shoddy, make no sense story. That's what is being offered, I'd think that would bother the troops a bit, no?

Ya get me?

[ITstudent2006]

Yes, the danger is there and always has been and always will be with war. However, displaying the picture has a chance of further fueling the fire.

Why upset the enemy more-so than they already are? Especially with troops lives at stake?

Yes, when I signed up I was aware of the choices I made and the danger I will put myself in. Small price to pay for the freedom/safety of my loved ones. Does that mean I want to further upset the man that wants to kill me by showing the world a picture of his dead leader? Hell No!

The question of supporting the war is hard one for me to answer because I am in the military. Do I support it? Yes & No. But it's happening regardless of what I think and there is a risk to my family and I will do what I can to mitigate that as much as possible.

I think I am misunderstanding what you're saying. Are you saying the choice to NOT display images are not because of troop safety as proclaimed?

[BMI]

I think the rationale behind the choice to NOT display the images is a crafted one aimed at invoking the understanding of those who want to see actual proof.

If you mention the danger posed to the troops by showing the pictures, you effectively quell those that demand to see it. It almost alienates them because if they still want to see the pictures or any proof, they appear to have no regard for the safety of those involved. I think it serves their purpose all to well to be all that legitimate and reason.

I really don't think it increases the danger of the war. I highly doubt someone who has not reacted to the news of Osama's death will all of a sudden 'snap' if he is shown a picture. As you stated, we will know whether he is indeed dead or not with or without pictures, when it is revealed, that same danger is as real and as extensive as releasing the pictures, just a few days later.

I don't want to come across as arguing our respective stances on the war or the many factors involved, I participated in this thread because I was not, and am still not, convinced of the story we have been told. Whether the man is dead or not is actually irrelevant to the danger posed or my position really. I think if they killed him, had no issues with that, clean, cold operation executed perfectly, the story would make perfect sense. It not making sense makes me wonder.

Rememeber, originally (which seems like months ago) the admonistration said the difficulty with the pictures was the graphic content. The quickly re-worded that and brought in troop safety, now they merged the two reasons so that is what we have. Add the burial at sea (which also referenced Islamic tradition and troop safety at different times) and I know pretty well that someone is baking something and telling it to us.

[tomder55]

I made this point on the new OP...

Hitler killed himself and he was cremated . Nobody saw the photos yet no one questions his demise .

His chared bones were scattered to locations undisclosed. The reason for this was so that a shrine could not be built for him by the Hitler cult.

[BMI]

The story surrounding Hitler's death made perfect sense. It was over, he was finished, he killed himself. Seems pretty plausible.

Osama may be dead; however, the story makes no sense. Akin to that magic bullshi... oops... bullet story about JFK.

Tell the truth and all those that doubt, won't.

[smoothy]

And the fact every time he says something the story changes.

Like a small kid that's telling a lie.

You might have been inclined to believe the first story... but by the time its changed several times... dramatically. You are left wondering exactly what really did happen.