[mitchsc]

I have an old Dell Dimension 8100. Every several months the HDD boot sector gets corrupted. Been having trouble figuring out why. Tried many different things so far.

The PC, which was pre XP, was rated at a maximum of an 80GB IDE HDD. By loading XP SP3, I am able to run a 250GB HDD.

I was thinking that perhaps the size of the drive is making the system unstable. My wife only uses it for email and a bit of web surfing, so I really don't need a large HDD. And small IDE drives are hard to find. As well, I have a new 250GB IDE drive I hate to waste.

If I created and formatted an 80GB partition, and left 170GB unallocated, would the PC think it had an 80GB HDD in it, and perhaps be more stable?

Can I just load XP on the 80GB partition, and let it create the boot partition as usual?

Would this 170GB unallocated space cause any problems?

Thanks...


PS: CD3, if you read this, I loaded the 5v and 12v lines with 10amps extra, and the voltage levels were rock solid. I think the PS is okay.

[Scleros]

I was thinking that perhaps the size of the drive is making the system unstable.

Maybe, way back when there was a 137GB drive capacity limitation for systems that did not support 48 bit logical block addressing. See Western Digital: Issues regarding drives larger than 137 GB, Western Digital: Full capacity of EIDE drives larger than 137 GB is not recognized in Windows 2000 and XP, and Seagate: Windows 137GB Capacity Barrier 48-bit Logical Block Addressing Support for ATA, Serial ATA or ATAPI Disc Drives for explanations of the issue.

Check Dell's site for 8100 BIOS and Intel chipset updates concerning 48 bit LBA support and information on if the system supports 48 bit LBA. If not, an IDE adapter could be added to the system to support the full capacity of the large drive.

If I created and formatted an 80GB partition, and left 170GB unallocated, would the PC think it had an 80GB HDD in it, and perhaps be more stable?

The PC would think it had a 137GB or 250 GB hard drive in it depending on whether the BIOS supported 48 bit LBA, of which 80GB was used for a partition. It might be more stable only because higher LBA values would not get used resulting in a wrap back to the beginning of the drive. I don't recommend this configuration in lieu of 48 bit support.

Can I just load XP on the 80GB partition, and let it create the boot partition as usual?

Yes*

Would this 170GB unallocated space cause any problems?

No*

* Contingent on the drive having proper 48 bit support.

[mitchsc]

I have a very very old BIOS version (A02). I've spent days researching the Dell site, Dell Tech Support Chat, and the Dell Forum. There doesn't seem to be a compatible BIOS upgrade for my PC (with XP loaded on it). The BIOS upgrade is for Win 2000. I tried flashing the BIOS, and got a warning that "the Boot Block Code is different, and flashing will change it". Most everyone I know suggested I do not flash the BIOS based on this warning.

That is one reason I am looking at "shrinking" the HDD for stability.

I have read a number of articles that XP SP3 allows you to surpass the original HDD limit on a PC. I've done so on 2 other PC's I have, and it has worked with no problems. I'm not sure what XP SP3 does to allow this.

So, back to the original question. With XP SP3, does it even make sense to partition the HDD down below 137GB?

[mitchsc]

Just found a forum post that indicates the 48-bit LBA support was added in BIOS update A07. But the Dell site says this update is for pre-XP. Nothing available for XP. XP runs fine on BIOS A02, but don't know what would happen if I completed the Flash to A09.

[Scleros]

A BIOS is operating system independent. There is no such thing as a Windows 2000 BIOS, or a Windows XP BIOS. Dell just lists operating systems in their download descriptions (including BIOS) on their web site so if you search for all XP downloads for instance, the BIOS shows up too. The only instance where the operating system may need consideration is if the BIOS package including the flash utility is offered in multiple versions including a Windows application so that the BIOS can be flashed while running Windows vs. the traditional way of making a DOS boot disk to flash the BIOS.

See The Boot Block for a description of the boot block. You can expect the boot block to change with a BIOS upgrade. This in and of itself isn't a problem. Backup the current BIOS using the flash utility and flash the A09 to see if you gain 48 bit LBA, or contact Dell support first to confirm 48 bit LBA support.

[mitchsc]

Sclearos, let me start by saying that I've been working on this for weeks, and you seem to be the most knowledgeable person to date. I would really appreciate you helping me through this. I think I'm almost there.

This is excellent information you have provided me. The fact that the BIOS is OS independent is great news, but oddly, not what Dell Tech Support told me.?

I actually found a BIOS version that is supposed to be specifically for WinXP. It's called XP2 from Dell (Link: click here , also below). Someone posted in the Dell Forum, that it includes the 48 bit LBA support, but I can't find a list of what is included. The XP2 site actually says it is designed for WinXP. Dell's download creates a bootable self extracting diskette.

The latest version A09 is a year newer (2003), but does not say it is compatible with WinXP, and Dell Chat said not to use A09 for WinXP.

If the XP2 BIOS contains the 48 bit LBA Support, would it be less risky to just install what Dell is saying is the correct version for WinXP?

I would love to try the latest A09 version flash, but I was also told there is no way to recover if I screw up the BIOS with an incompatible version.

You mentioned backing up my BIOS with the Flash utility. If I understand what a "Flash Utility" is, I don't think it's included with these old downloads. It wasn't an option when I 1st tried flashing A09 and got the Boot Block warning. Also, if I mess up the BIOS to the point where it won't boot from any drive, how would I recover?

You also mentioned checking to see if I get 48 bit LBA support after the flash. How do I check that?

Sorry for all the questions, but I've never done this and it's getting confusing. I've been told so much conflicting information about BIOS flashing.

Please help! Thank you so much.


This is the direct link to Dell BIOS XP2: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&releaseid=R362 58&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P4_8100&servicetag=&os=WW1&osl =en&deviceid=308&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=6&catid =&impid=&formatcnt=0&libid=1&typeid=-1&dateid=-1&formatid=-1&source=-1&fileid=40731

[Scleros]

would it be less risky to just install what Dell is saying is the correct version for WinXP?

Install whatever Dell support told you to install. It looks like their XP2 version is a patched or custom version of the BIOS to make it play nice with XP. Consider this a hack or special case. Normally there are not OS specific BIOS versions.

If I understand what a "Flash Utility" is, I don't think it's included with these old downloads.

The flash utility is the software program that "flashes" or applies the BIOS code to the computer. I'm not sure where the term flash first originated. It may have been from earlier EPROM chips for which ultraviolet light was used in the reprogramming process. Today flash memory is used. In Dell's case they package this utility and the BIOS code together in a self executing package that creates a diskette. Some vendors supply the BIOS code and the flash utility as separate downloads.

Also, if I mess up the BIOS to the point where it won't boot from any drive, how would I recover?

Worst case if the BIOS update goes awry the computer may not POST. It will sit there with a blank screen with maybe a blinking cursor and nothing will happen. Booting from a drive occurs after POST. However, if the boot block is intact (it is updated first), recovery can be attempted by preparing a diskette with the correct BIOS code. If the boot block was corrupted too... well then you'll have a problem.

You also mentioned checking to see if I get 48 bit LBA support after the flash. How do I check that?

Configured or detected drives and devices during POST are typically shown in the BIOS setup along with their parameters. Is the shown drive capacity correct? However, Dell's BIOS setup interfaces tend to be sparse and it may not show that amount of detail. I'll see if I can find a free 48 Bit LBA BIOS test utility tomorrow when I get to work.

More info at:
Wikipedia: BIOS
Wikipedia: Flash Memory

[mitchsc]

Thanks Scleros. That 48 Bit LBA BIOS test utility would be great, as I have 3 older PC's here that I'd like to bring up to date as much as possible.

I've been reading again (dangerous). There is so much conflicting information out there.

It sounds like the fact that I am relying on XP SP3 to run larger HDDs (250GB) with a 28 bit BIOS, may be the cause of my original problem of the boot sector becoming corrupted every few months. Several people said they were having the same problem, until they partitioned their HDD below 128GB. Then the corruption stopped.

Others claim you must do both, smaller partitions (<128GB) AND 48 bit BIOS.

To top it off, another article said you ALSO must have a 48 bit compliant mobo IDE controller.

Hard to know what I really do need. I was encouraged by the real life testing that several people did with the < 128GB partition completely solving their boot corruption. Maybe the theory of an MBR virus is actually false in my case.

[Scleros]

I haven't been able to find a free utility. There was an Intel test utility at one point, but all the links are now dead. An inexpensive HDInfo tool at 48bitlba.com is the best I've found. How old are the other computers? Any with BIOS copyright or other dates before middle of 2002 would not have support.

All the articles may have been correct depending on what specific situation they were discussing.

[mitchsc]

Thanks for checking Scleros. 1 PC is 2001. The other one says in my notes, that it is 48 bit LBA.

You know, I was just wondering if I can resolve this entire issue by installing a 48 bit RAID Controller card? Posted this same question on the Dell forum and was told "BIOS must have an "Option ROM feature". Of course I have no idea what that is, and Dell is not supporting the old Dimension 8100 beast anymore, so I wouldn't know how to find out. Do you agree with the Option ROM feature?

I found this Sabrent card for under $20.
SBT-RDIT SiI0680A - PCI to 2 Port IDE/PATA: http://sabrent.com/v2/silicon-image-ultra-ata-100133-ide-raid-pci-host-controller-card/#
Specs: http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=31

If you think this takes care of everything, I'll order it tonight!

Thank you so much...

[Scleros]

I was just wondering if I can resolve this entire issue by installing a 48 bit RAID Controller card?

Yes, but I question the prudence of this course of action for the long term given the costs and time involved and have been hesitant to suggest it. My course of action would be:
1. Upgrade the BIOS to XP2 and see what happens.
2. If no joy with #1, replace the motherboard, processor, memory and possibly power supply with faster (way faster!) current technology for $200 or less.

Concerns about an add-in card for you:
1. Increases system complexity for boot order configuration and OS F6 installation for controller driver.
2. I don't have any experience with Sabrent, but based on experience with Promise, Highpoint, and Siig vs. 3Ware, Adaptec, Intel, LSI, etc, you get what you pay for; they may have aspects that are half-baked which might require more than a small measure of technical expertise to get functioning correctly if at all.
3. Parallel ATA and PCI are dead ends. Their replacements are Serial ATA and PCI Express. If drive or controller fails, you will be back at square one and PCI cards will be hard to find if not nonexistent. All things considered, seems unwise to me to buy a PATA card given the cost of a new SATA drive or a PATA/SATA adapter.
4. A RAID card isn't needed if you aren't planning on running RAID.

Do you agree with the Option ROM feature?

See Wikipedia: Option ROM for a description. I agree in the sense that whatever add-in controller is obtained, it will need to provide it's own BIOS support. Feedback for this card at Newegg wasn't encouraging.

[mitchsc]

Thanks Scleros for the detailed run down.

Just flashed the BIOS to XP2 to include 48 bit LBA support. Success with that!

I'll drop the PCI card idea. No need for that now.

Someone just suggested HijackThis and posting on the Malware Removal Forum for Boot Sector Virus analysis. That scenario is still a possibility. I didn't know the boot sector could be checked this way. Heard of, but never used HijackThis.