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DIYlearner · Apr 8, 2011, 04:54 PM

We have a rarely used finished basement bathroom, which includes a shower, washbasin & toilet. I plan to convert the space to enclose the washbasin & toilet into a powder room. I can use then use the plumbing for the shower to make a wet bar sink in the same location (but lower of course). What do I have to keep in mind when I plan to replace the shower head which is located at about 7 feet off the ground, with a hot & cold water faucet for a bar sink at 36" height? I will pull off the tile & redo the wall to make a new wet bar.

Do I need a permit?How much expertise does this require? I have some experience in replacing toilets & vanities, replacing kitchen pull-out faucet, and replacing vanity faucet, but have never changed location of fixtures on existing pipes. Any insights will be appreciated. Thank you.

ma0641 · Apr 8, 2011, 06:05 PM

You may or may not need a permit depending on where you live. This is a fairly hard project if you are not a relatively experienced DIY'r. Hopefully there is a shut off valve for the shower either in an access panel or basement/crawlspace. If not, you'll need to turn the water off at the main house valve and relieve the pressure. Open up the wall by removing the tile and drywall and shower pan. You should see 2 water lines running up the wall to either 2 valves or a mixing valve. You will need to cut the water pipes, about 12-16" off the floor and remove the shower riser. The pipe material determines your next move. You will either solvent cement, sweat, PEX clamp or use shark or gator bite fittings to bring the pipes out of the wall. Cap the pipes off. Now, cut the drain pipe off and remove the trap assembly. attach an extension to the existing drain and bring it about 2-3 " above the vanity floor leval. Finish the wall. Set the vanity, attach angle stops to the water supply lines and install a new trap assembly. You may need to do some constructive plumbing to avoid an "S" trap configuration. Install the sink, attach all the plumbing a turn the water on. Plan on not having a sink for a while! Hopefully you will have house water the same day. Are you ready for this or is a plumber a better choice? You may be able to save some movey by doing all the demo, have a plumber stub everything else out and then you do the finish work.

massplumber2008 · Apr 8, 2011, 08:02 PM

Yeah, the big issue here will be to vent the new bar sink...

Here, you will probably be best to eliminate/cap the shower drain to below the floor and actually connect into the shower vent above the floor for the new sink. This way, the shower vent can now act as the sink vent... ;)

You would connect a sanitary tee fitting into the shower vent so the drain pipe ends up at about 18" to center off the floor at the bar sink. The vent needs to be within 3-5 feet of the sink.

The rest is pretty obvious as Ma0641 pointed out.

Plumbing code would definitely require a permit for this job!

More questions? Let us know, OK?

Mark

DIYlearner · Apr 9, 2011, 06:56 AM

Thank you both for the inputs. It definitely helps to know what things I must think of - permits, capping the existing shower, venting the sink... I'm not really sure if I can handle this, but I intend to understand as much as possible so I know enough to be able to talk intelligently to an expert :)

The 1/2" copper tubes and a PVC drain for the washbasin & shower are actually exposed at the back of the wall in the utility. The shower floor itself is built up higher (About 19") off the floor, because the shower was built on top of the (I think) septic tank. The shower head is 4" from the ceiling, & the shower controls (hot, cold & a mixer handle) are at about 5' from the floor because anyone who takes a shower has to climb up & stand 19" off the ground! The shower floor & walls are all tiled, & the floor drain smells on occasion if the washbasin is unused for periods. We were told at the time of inspection it is not to code.

So my questions right now - (To massplumber2008) Can the existing shower drain be used for the sink if it smells? Or is this some bigger problem I need to be aware of before I tear down a perfectly good structure? :) (To M0641 ) I like the suggestion of doing demo & finishing myself. Should I remove all tile, drywall and complete framing of the separating wall before the plumber is called in? Or just get them to see everything as is & give an estimate? Thank you both very much.

ma0641 · Apr 9, 2011, 09:04 AM

I was going to suggest an AAV if needed.

ma0641 · Apr 9, 2011, 09:08 AM

I would do the demo first, that way there would-or should be-no surprises when the plumber comes. Now that you told us the floor was elevated, this make your drain and supply work easier. The reasons you smell sewer gas from an unused drain are that (A)water evaporates from the trap. (B)Insufficient venting that sucks the water out of the trap. If you can use an AIR Admittance Valve (AAV)in your locale, do so, it solves a lot of venting issues.

DIYlearner · Apr 9, 2011, 10:42 AM

Thank you! I will look into information available regarding AAV and see if I can do this in the situation. And plan upon the demo once I get my plans finalized in my head & paper. :) Does the entire wall which houses the shower assembly need to be removed? Or only a length that exposes the pipes? As I said, the 1/2" copper tubing taking water to the handles, & the shower heads is visible from the utility. Maybe the work can be done from behind entirely?

I just checked, the PVC drain pipe for the shower runs out the back into the utility too. So do I have to get rid of the floor drain and do I have to pull up the shower floor? I was planning to just cover the (septic tank) behind a false cabinet front, & have the sink located on top of it and drain into the floor drain.

Thanks.

ma0641 · Apr 9, 2011, 12:27 PM

Yes, you can leave the tile and work from the back, assuming you have clearance. What are you going to do with the tile walls where the holes will be? Simplest thing is to glue greenboard right to the tile with construction ahhesive. When you say "septic" are you referring to an ejector pump for the basement? Don't cover that. I would think the floor drain goes into the ejector pit if that's what you have but you will need a trap. A floor drain can be closed off by blocking the hole with paper, push it down 3-4 " and then pour hydraulic cement mix into the hole. However, make sure you don't need the drain.

ma0641 · Apr 9, 2011, 12:30 PM

PS. If Mark and I helped you out, you may "tip" us by checking "yes" is this helpful. Thanks, Brian

massplumber2008 · Apr 9, 2011, 03:37 PM

You said, "the floor drain smells on occasion if the washbasin is unused for periods of time". As Brian pointed out, the smell is probably due to lack of use and may be due to the trap drying out. Brian also covered the "septic tank"... more info. Needed on this...

Now, if this floor drain is properly trapped and vented then you can INDIRECTLY connect the bar sink drain to the floor drain by ending it 1-2 inches above the floor drain. If you go this route I would also recommend that you get a trap primer installed to keep the floor drain wetted at all times (google trap primer).

Otherwise, if the shower vent is in the correct area I still say you cut into it and install a regular ptrap and use the shower vent to vent the new bar sink as AAVs may not be legal in your area, OK? If AAVs are legal then you couyld certainly use it, but as a general rule, if there is a non-mehcanical vent nearby (and there is here) then you use that for the new sink.

Glad to discuss more if you want...

Mark