[gingerwish1234]

Scared is okay, we all have that fear of how things will work out. To use it for an excuse to do nothing is NOT okay

Once again, you are right.

[talaniman]

Once again, you are right.

That's not what my wife says:D Just trying to lighten things up as I don't want to sound cruel or judgemental, but wish to encourage you to love yourself.:)

[chuff]

Chuff, I just can't seem to stop thinking about the above. I do love his core, but
our differences from his core are complete differences. Night and day. Does that mean
that a marriage is failing? Just a question I have in my head.

Thank you again for your time. Those were incredible words.

Thank you for your nice words. You asked does that mean a marriage is failing? I would say no because you can have two people with core values that have different interests. At the end of the day you are then able to share those interests with the other person.

The problem you have is that is not happening your marriage. You two go off and do your thing for the day and then at night you come home and don't share anything with the other. In fact you only do things for him "to keep the peace." So there is no communication from either party. And yeah, your going to have to share the blame there. He may have started it years ago by shutting down. But now you shut down because you know it's not going anywhere or it's not worth the trouble. But the communication here is dead.

Like I said you guys are roommates, not lovers. Marriage at the end of the day is a sexual relationship. You aren't having sex. In reality your not having any shared moments. Your just living under the same roof to save on mortgage payment. But I've done that with my guy friends and had basically the same relationship.

[gingerwish1234]

Tal, oh I know that's exactly how I took it, so thank you.

Chuff, you are right as well. And I more than take responsibility. You are so right about keeping peace. That's truly what I do. Just not to create waves or have a disagreement.
Because it is so upsetting to have a disagreement. I would just say I am sorry, just to let it blow over. I used to say I was sorry until he would start talking to me again, but I no longer do that. I say sorry once and if he still is mad, I just let it go until he wants to talk again.

As I write all of this I realize how much I need and we need to work on.

You are very special individuals, all of you, for taking the time to listen and help.

Tough love and all :). Still scared, but I know, no excuse.

Just trying to think of the best time to have this talk.

Thank you again.

[Wildcat21]

If this isn't IMPORTANT to him... well you have your answer. IF he's not willing to listen and brush you off... well you have your answers.

He obviously doesn't care enough.

Lots of great men out there who WILL listen!!

Unfortunately I bet you were married too young... I always say most women shout NOT be married until at least 26... guys past age 30. Before that you're just NOT ready.

And DR PHIL is Awsome - I used tohate him - BUT I get it now!! If he doesn't get Dr. Phil - then time to move on.

Why be so unhappy?? New bigginings.

How old were you when you married? I bet too young.

TELL him thisis VERY important to you - he needs to LISTEN to you - NO interuptions. Have him promise not to interrupt. If he does then he he's an imature jerk... and you need to move on.

Listening is an important SKILL - so people will never learn this - it's so important in a relationship.

[Wildcat21]

Communication is king!! If you can not communicate these to him - well - he's a selfish jerk then who hasn't grown up.

You need to tell himm over and over he needs to listen. AND if he doesn't see these as problems - well - time to move on.

[gingerwish1234]

Wildcat21 - thanks!

Just planning in my head the best time to approach him and actually even what to say and how to say it.

But I will do it.

[ordinaryguy]

Ginger, I have read and re-read your posts, and it seems to me there's something of a disconnect here. I've taken the liberty of editing and rearranging what you've written. Here's the bad news:

I am drowning in my own sadness and deep resentment towards him. My husband likes to be the funny man. Loves to make the girls laugh. Expecially when I am there. This has gone on my whole marriage. In the earlier years, I would express to him, how is obvious flirting (whispering in a ladies ear, “let’s get a hotel room together), hurts me. I would not holler or get mad, I would tell him how it hurts. I used to not trust my husband as far as cheating. Now I guess I do, but am at the point I really don’t care. I have heard voice messages from women, with sexual overtones in them, that just has made me loose all respect for him. Has he cheated on me? Well, he is so lazy and says cheating takes so much effort, but my gut tells me that he had, but I no longer look for evidence as I used to. I have realized this is very unhealthy for me.

I am angry and hurt.

I no longer want him to touch me, as I just am too hurt.

I am now unable to become aroused by him, as I feel he has lost the right to touch me with his disrespect to me.

I do so much for his family and used to do it out of love, but now I find myself doing it because I have to and just be so resentful inside.

I have given so much, more than I wrote here, I really don’t feel like giving anymore. I love him but I am not in love with him. We are very different people. Very. I love romantic walks, he likes to observe the world and reveal how everyone in it is a asshol* and proceeds me to want to adopt his thinking.

I have grown a great deal from the “girl” that he married. I am now a “woman”, one that is deserving to be loved AND respected.

I don't think he wants to "share" with me. If that makes sense. Share as married people do.

That all seems to be consistent and coherent when it's put together like that. Your husband is a cut-up and a flirt around other women, and you feel that this is disrespectful of you. You have told him how this makes you feel, but he doesn't take it to heart or change his behavior. Over the years, this has stoked the resentment and hurt you feel, until now you are at a point where you have no more respect for or sexual attraction to him. All this is completely understandable, and if that were all there was to the story, I'd say it's hopeless, dump him and move on.

BUT---that's not the whole story. Sprinkled throughout are these comments:

I am married for 18 years. To a wonderful man. Caring, unselfish and shows concern for any pain or ache I may have. He never wants me to have a problem or ever be sad.

He loves me, wants to take care of me

To be very truthful, he and I are friends. We laugh and do get a long.

I never ever want to hurt him.

He compliments me everyday about my appearance, and is attentive to me when we are at home, I do wait on him hand and foot, but I love doing that and he does appreciate it.

I have no doubt in my mind if he loves me or not. He does.

Sounds like an entirely different relationship with an entirely different man, doesn't it? Do you see why I'm confused? The fact that you have so much good to say about him and about your relationship makes me think there just might be a chance to salvage something between you.

It sounds like he's kind of immature, maybe not too deep, probably thoughtless, but in spite of all that, really does care for you. If you could get him to realize how very serious you take these issues, how much hurt and resentment has built up over the years, and how close to the point of no return you are, he just might be willing to undertake some serious long-term marriage counselling with you. The question for you is whether it's too far gone for you to let go of your hurt. If not, I suppose there's no point in trying to drag him through it, but it sounds like there might be a glimmer of hope here.

You didn't say how old you are, but I'm guessing late 30's-early 40's since you married young and have been together 18 years. It's a different thing to chuck it all at that stage of life than it would be in your twenties. Not that it's impossible to start over at any age, but I just seem to sense that neither of you are quite ready to give up on it, so if there's any hope at all, I'd encourage you to try.

[gingerwish1234]

OrdinaryGuy,

Thank you. Yes, I do see your confusion. But it's all true. I see the great qualties in my husband as a person, but where I hurt is the intimate part of our marriage that is nonexsistent. I also see qualities in him, that I am not proud of. But that is not my primary concern at the moment, it is the lack of intamacy and having the feeling of "his wife".
Today, he actaully pointed to something on the rug as he walked by, for me to pick up. That really annoyed me. But I picked it up. It was just an instinct on his part, but why? The why is because for all these years, I would just happily pick it up. I really think I contributed to him not viewing me as you view a wife. He's proud that I am his wife, but I don't think he is attracted to me as his wife, because I haven't earned his repsect as such.
I am not sure if that makes any sense. But since he always felt he had to look after me (his doing not mine, I actually lived on my own for 5 years prior to meeting him, however, I was very naïve, and I think that is why he felt the need to look over me)

I do agree, counseling is definitely in order. But I am so worried what he will say. But as Taliman pointed out, I can not let fear be an excuse. I am planning on bringing this up to him next weekend as the week is always stressful for him.

You are right, I do say good things about him, as I still can see them and do love those parts about him. I still am so hurt and do not feel okay inside to be intimate with him, although I would never turn him away.

He also is on valium a doctors prescription for years. I don't think that helps. I am not on birth control and he has said in the past, us getting pregnant concerns him. These two factors may be contributing to his not showing interest for intamacy.

There are issues to be worked on, but you are right, there are some great things to hold on to.

Ordinaryguy, thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this. I really have been thinking about what everyone has been saying and trying to take a step outside my situation before I approach him next weekend.

You putting it all together, the way you did really did help a great deal.

I sincerely thank you.

[Wildcat21]

Have you taken the time to speak time him?

From what you've written it sounds like he won't listen to you.

[Wildcat21]

To play devils advocate here -maybe he wants out and he doesn't want to hurt you?

It's a two way street - if he took care of you, well, maybe he's worried about that. Remember to thin kof his side.

[chuff]

To play devils advocate here -maybe he wants out and he doesn't want to hurt you?

It's a two way street - if he took care of you, well, maybe he's worried about that. Remember to thin kof his side.

I agree with you. It sounds like he's not a bad guy, or not as bad as some of what we see posted here. I just think these two grew in different directions. Sometimes realtionships just come to an end and it's really neither parties fault. They were good for a time in their life when they were good together but with age, life experiences, eduation, and maturity people move in different directions. It sounds like from what's been posted here that is exactly what happened.

[gingerwish1234]

Hi Wildcat and Chuff,

I’m glad that you can see that he is not a bad guy, that’s why I do feel so bad, about feeling so bad. It's mostly just the lack of intmacy and how he treats me when others are around. I don't mind so much all the friends that are girls, and I wouldn't mind it at all, if there was more intmacy at home.

I did read where you think maybe he may want out. I would have to say no, but you never know and it is something for me to think about and your right, to try and see it from his side. Only thing is, he always talks about when we retire, how much he is looking forward to it being just he and I. Every New Years Eve, including this past one, he always says, “ I promise you, this year I am going to be a better husband.”. He sometimes says, Thank you for being my wife. “You’re my best friend”. He loves being home, he always says, “I love being home, I wish I never had to leave those front doors.”

But it is in his personality to do things out of obligation. Maybe he loves me, but is not in love with me. Like I said about him. Which sometimes I feel and sometimes I don’t. But writing all his good points, makes me remember why I do love him.

Oh, just getting more confused. I wasn’t sure how to approach him. But both of you gave me an idea. Was thinking of asking him, if he is still “in love” with me. Starting it out that way.

Thank you so much again. I would hate for him to stay with me because he thought he had to.

No Wildcat, I am waiting till the weekend. During the week is too stressful for him. He usually is very tired.

[Wildcat21]

Coomunication is king - it may be very upsetting but don't let him interrupt. Ask him in a very calm, nice way to please listen - that you have a lot to say - knowing guys, and this sounds like him - he will try and interrupt you. You must have your say in this - if anything else to get peace with in you. It's a must.

Then - once you are completely done. Let him talk. And then talk some more.

This isn't something that will get resolved this weekend by no means - it's only a starting point.

I quite sure both of you will grow from this.

But you must talk. Be prepared for interuptin and ask him then to promise not to speak until oyu are done.

I've even seen couples use a 'speaker stick' the person holding the stick gets to talk. Then pass to their partner.

One thing couples don't do - and this is extremely important, is to pick one day EVERY week to sit down and talk - just the two of you - whe nyou're both relaxed - get everything off your chest. You must do this going forward.

[Wildcat21]

Ithink that would be a good way to start.

[gingerwish1234]

Wildcat,

So sweet of you to help out so much and everyone else as well.

I'm as much excited and scared. Guess that's not too bad. Wish I didn't have to wait until the weekend. But it would be best.

Maybe he has things he needs to get off his chest too. Even though I think I am perfect, (just kiddn) maybe I'm not.

I think I will start it out that way, but I think even before that, I may start it out with all his good points and thank him for that and then ask, if he is still in love with me. Oh I feel like I have the nerve now, but I will this weekend too.

I can not thank you enough. Promise to let you all know.

[chuff]

Wildcat,

So sweet of you to help out so much and everyone else as well.

I'm as much excited and scared. Guess that's not too bad. Wish I didn't have to wait until the weekend. But it would be best.

Actually I think that's a good thing. It will give you a week to compose your thoughts, so that you can present them in the best possible way instead of just speaking emotionally from the mouth without any thought going into what your saying.

To add to what WC was saying yes make sure he's quiet and doesn't interrupt but you must be that way too when he talks back. And this must be a talk not a shouting match.

Also in the coming week as things come to mind write them down and even refer to them if you have to during the talk. People tend to forget things during emotional situations so prepare for it in the on coming week.

Maybe he has things he needs to get off his chest too. Even though I think I am perfect, (just kiddn) maybe I'm not.

Unfortunately for you, I will have to give modesty card to him. LOL.

In all seriousness he may either be so shocked by this that he doesn't respond right then but needs a couple days to a week to really think it through. Or he may feel like he's under attack and come out verbally swinging. So you are going to have keep calm and remind him that this is a coversation not a shouting match. If he gets really upset you might say very calmly that "at some point you had to know this coversation had to take place." Because the truth is, that I think he has been holding it off with you, just like you have him. But in all reality he knows that it has to take place.

I think I will start it out that way, but I think even before that, I may start it out with all his good points and thank him for that and then ask, if he is still in love with me. Oh I feel like I have the nerve now, but I will this weekend too.

I can not thank you enough. Promise to let you all know.

I think that's a good way to start it. And maybe end it. Reviewing his good points. Quite honestly I think that's why a lot of men (and women for that matter) get so upset sometimes because they feel like if your saying something negative about them then your attacking them as person. Even if he starts to get down stay positive. Stay true to what your saying and don't waver on that. Be firm but fair.

[gingerwish1234]

With each of your repsonses, I feel myself getting more confident that I can do this and how important it actually is. My heart feels excited but I know not to expect miracles.

To be truthful, what I am expecting, is "is where are you coming up with all of this". This is just crap that you are letting the stuff you read on the internet fill your head. That will probably be his initial reaction.

When I say that I will tell him all his great qualities, I usually do, and am sincere about it.
But for us to work, this talk really has to happen and work.

Now I am more concerned how this will effect him, but he has to be sad inside too? Having absence of intamacy really hurts inside. I just have to be so careful in not hurting his manhood, as though he is not fulfilling me.

Chuff, I will do just that, write my thoughts down.

I wish it was tonight, but again, you are right, the time may really help.

Just like he may not know I am hurting, maybe there are things that I do that effect him.

Thank you again so very much. Keep your fingers crossed for me that I say the right words, that cause no pain, only open and truthful conversation.

Thanks!!

[ordinaryguy]

I'm not so sure about starting by asking whether he's in love with you. This puts the focus on how HE feels. The focus needs to be on how YOU feel. The number one purpose and goal of the discussion needs to be to convey to him how desperately unhappy you are, how close to giving up you are, how hurt and resentful you are, and WHY YOU FEEL THIS WAY--his disrespectful treatment when others are around, and the lack of intimacy between you.

You've kept these feelings bottled up and secret for so long, mostly, I take it, to keep from rocking the boat and making a scene. Well, it's time to make a scene. You don't have to scream and be irrational, but you do have to get right in his face and make him realize that this is deadly serious, and unless some major changes happen soon, you're out of there. If you soft pedal it, I'm afraid the message won't get through. He'll just brush it off as more "Dr. Phil crap" and continue right on as before. In order to make him realize that change is necessary, you have to convince him that you have ALREADY changed and if he doesn't wake up and smell the burning rubber, he's going to be left with nothing but smoke.

[gingerwish1234]

Ordinaryguy,

I was thinking the same thing, that I need to stay focused about why I even want the conversation. Fortunately, I am not a screamer. So a screaming match isn't a concern.

My biggest problem, is rarely do I open up when things bother me, just for the reason you say, as to not rock the boat, so I have contributed to the years of all of this being not tended to.

When I do open up, if he goes on the Dr. Phil road, I feel so stupid and then sometimes if I feel it's causing him upset, then I will say, oh no never mind, I understand why it is the way it is. I am telling you these things to come clean, because I can not do this when I talk to him. I can not just shrivel away. It gets to where I don't think my upset inside is important enough to rock the boat.

He has a tendency to fret about everything, mostly about him Mom. So, I guess I don't like to add to it. But what I am telling myself is this will be better for him. He knows our siutation, and is a very proud man, it has to eat at his self esteem as well.

This will be good for us, I just have to stay focused.

I can not thank you enough.

As I said I never open up to anyone about anything, so I can not even begin to tell all of you what this means to me. Thanks.