[sweetsorrow]

OK so I have a question/problem. But before I get into it I just want to let everyone know that I don't believe in god, that's why I need opinions from people who do (the more devout the more I think I'll get a better explaination) so I'm not trying to offend anybody if I say the wrong thing.

Here's the story, I have a good friend who comes from a very religious family, and I mean very. He recently came out to me, which was very hard for him because he was always taught that it was wrong to be gay. I think the fact that I don't share his families beliefs is what made him come to me because he couldn't keep it to himself anymore. After much fear and grief he decided that if he was ever going to be happy with himself he was going to have to tell his family and asked if I could just be there with him for support, which I of course did.

Well... they were furious! They didn't want to know him at all! They just denied him any rights to call himself their son. He was kicked out with nothing but the clothes on his back. It was really very sad, I couldn't believe that anyone could do that to their own son.

OK so this is my question, his family (and I know a lot of people do) really believes that you are how god made you, like his sister sometimes complains how she is a little overweight, and they are always telling her that that's how god made her and she is beautiful in his eyes. So then why is being gay such a sin? Most experts will tell you that you can't be turned gay, you are born gay, that's just the way it is. Even if you can be turned gay if it is such a bad unnatural thing in gods eyes then why would he have given people the ability to find the same sex attractive?

Like I said, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand why my friend has to live without his own family for the rest of his life because he is who he is. It breaks my heart because he can't help how he feels and either way he has to suffer, whether its without his family or being someone he isn't. Which is worse being who you are or living a lie to please other people?

Someone please answer

[Goddard]

I'm a Christian so I will give this a shot. I do think his parents very much over reacted. He is their son. Turning their backs on him is not the answer. Right now is when he needs to be loved most. It does say in the Bible in the New Testament that homosexuals will not inherit eternal life (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Those are the Bible's words, not mine. However, I do feel that it is their duty and obligation to love him anyway. They are not responsible for his salvation, only he is. But I feel they are responsible to love him, seeing as how they brought him into this world. Even though it's not in the Bible, many Christians go by this saying: Love the sinner, not the sin.

[N0help4u]

I often get into it with Christians over this (and I am one myself)
They say you can not be born gay because God wouldn't make you in a way that he condemns. They say that it is only by your choice that you can be gay.
They make it out like it is some kind of specially wrong sin worse than ALL others when
in actuality sin is sin. ---Taking this on the premise that sex outside of marriage is sin---
How can they treat a gay person worse than an adulterer or fornicator? They will accept and 'work with' a guy that cheats on his wife repeatedly but they toss out all feelings of a gay person and treat them like they are sub human which absolutely does not reflect God!
They understand "winning them over with love" when it is within their own comprehension but when they can't relate to what they view as the 'sinner's sin' they judge and condemn.
They can't be honest with themselves and realize that often many murders, womenisers and so forth 'had those thoughts and/or feelings at a very young age. Did God make them that way?
The Bible says that before he formed you in the womb, before you were even conceived he knew you. That doesn't mean He made us any particular way but he knew WHAT we are made of. He knew what our individuality would lead us to basically, even though he gave us free will to take it whatever way we wanted.
Christians say gay is sin so then they treat a gay like they have some sinful disease to be quarantined yet they say "hate the sin, love the sinner" How are they to do that when their attitude reflects hatefulness?

[MoonlitWaves]

I don't think parents should shun their children because they are homosexual. As
Nohelp4u stated, a sin is a sin and no sin is greater than the other. Therefore the child's sin of homosexuality should not be treated any differently than any other sin the child commits. God loves us all whether we are saved or not. God loves us even though he knows we will continue to sin as we are not perfect. I do not think parents are following God's example when they shun their children away. Besides, how are they any better than anyone else. And this goes for all people and all relationships not just the case of homosexuality.
That being said.. it is my belief than homosexuality is a sin. We are born sinners, but we have the ability to turn away from sin, though we oft times fail and always will, until we are perfect. Being born gay means not having a choice in who you find sexually attractive. Because we always have the choice to either sin or not sin, I don't believe people are born gay.
Even though this is my belief I do not agree with being cruel to people. I don't believe we should judge people, I think that should be left up to God. Who are we to judge when we ourselves are no better than anyone else, and we sin just the same.

[BMI]

I agree with all the previous posts. I do believe that being gay is a sin and I also believe that you are not born gay but rather it is a decision you make. God gave us free will and with that we can choose one way or the other, I can choose to act on impulses or not to act, these decisions over time make the person we are today. I think saying that people are born gay is a way of making the ones that are ashamed of being gay feel better, they also say you are born as an alcoholic, again I think that you become what you are based on decisions you have made and impulses you have acted on.

HOWEVER, I myself am not gay and do think it is a sin to be gay but I myself sin as well in other areas. I have had sex and I am not married, I lust over things I should not, I'm envious at times, I got all kinds of sinful tendencies, will I go straight to hell? I don't believe that because you sin you are going to hell, GOD forgives and you must try to doyour best, to sin is human, I believe that isin the Bible too.

That's my take

[NeedKarma]

Perhaps he should go to the same therapy that Ted Haggard went to. He was gay and abused drugs all while being one of the top evangelical preachers who condemned homosexuality. After a few weeks of the therapy he was pronounce a heterosexual! Amazing! This can happen for your friend too!

[Wondergirl]

I am a Christian and believe most gays are born that way or somehow have been shaped to be that way before their own ability to reason has kicked in. (I know a number of gays who would never had "chosen" such a thing had they had the choice.)

If you go with the idea that we all have free will, based on the Creation story in Genesis, then in Chapter 3 is the story of the Fall. Adam and Eve used their free will to go against God's command. Also in Chapter 3, it says that, at the same time, the entire creation fell into sin. Childbirth would now entail pain; farming would entail hard work and sweat. God's perfect creation was no more. Babies of any species would be born in pain and into a sinful world, into a less-than-perfect situation. Babies of any species would be born NOT perfect; all would have in them the propensity for illness and death. All of creation groaned.

God had created male and female to become as one sexually. Now that Creation is screwed up, all sorts of anomalies occur when males and females of any species mate. Males are born with the secondary sex characteristics of females, and vice versa. Babies are born deformed. Babies are born but live only a few hours. Babies are born dead.

Through it all, God still loves His Creation and suffers right along with it.

[sweetsorrow]

Well thank you all for your responses. I realise there is probably nothing that can be done to change my friends families minds, but I'm hoping that after this all sinks in and the initial shock is over they will realize what all of you have said. I must say that I agree with all of you in most senses, even though I don't have the same beliefs. Like Wondergirl said, I know that if my friend had a choice in this he would have chosen to be straight. I mean he has lost so much over this. Consider if it was you, what would you choose? Being gay and losing your whole family, the people that mean the most to you. Or being straight and continuing to be the apple of their eye for all your life? I think the answer is obvious.

And even though I don't believe in god, I have to say that it makes more sense that he wouldn't turn his back on my friend. Like a few of you have said he gave us the ability to think for ourselves, if he didn't was us to make these choices in life he wouldn't have made us able to do that. There are a lot of bad people in this world and I assure you my friend is not one of them, he is just simply being himself which I honestly do think is what god would want. I do think it would be worse if he spent his life lying about this to himself and everyone just to be excepted, not only by his family but by god as well. Isn't vanity a sin? Because I would consider that an act in vein, doing it to please others to make your life easier and to not go to hell, and to make sure your set for life and the afterlife. Tell me if I'm wrong about that, its just my view.

All of you have helped me to grasp some understanding in this situation. Its amazing that even though it's the same religion everyone has a different take on it. But I guess we will never know which is the right one until its too late. I just hope that my friend will be OK, and as its his belief, that god will help him get through this.

Thank you again! :)

[fallen2grace]

Great answer

[deist]

His parents are probably fundamentalists, & they take the bible literally & seriously. In Leviticus it actually says to put homosexuals to death. What a mean god the fundamentalists have ! He drowned uncounted young children & unborn babies in the flood story in Genesis, innocent children who had committed no personal sins. Fundamentalists are generally unforgiving & vindictive unless you come around to their way of thinking. Your friend is just being who he is. Humans are not the only ones who practice homosexuality, it is common in the lower animals. Why should humans be any different ?

[inthebox]

You can take me as a "fundamentalist,"

The bible also states " Romans 3:23
23for ALL have SINNED and fall short of the glory of God,

not just homosexuals, ALL

The bible also states:
16"For God so LOVED the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

And

1 john 4:

7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.


Yes this is my "mean" God.

So in summary:
God does judge, but He also Loves.
It is humans [ Christian, non-Christian etc.. ] that hate.





Grace and Peace

[speechlesstx]

Sweetsorrow, mostly good answers here - except for that one about Ted Haggard. How about a perspective from someone who's been in your friend's parents' shoes (except for that kicking him out the house with nothing but the clothes on his back part).

Regardless of what the bible says homosexuality has been one of those forbidden, shameful things for a long time (to put it mildly), especially so to certain people of 'faith.' I'm sure it was a shock for his parents to learn their son was gay, they're probably in denial. Been there, done that. With that said however, I can find no excuse for them not finding a way to deal with this better. I understand the anger and disappointment, but you don't abandon and disown your children... ESPECIALLY when they need your love and acceptance most.

I don't think they don't have to approve of his lifestyle or abandon their belief that homosexuality is a sin. I'm sure he doesn't approve of everything they do and I would hope they know their sin is no better than anyone else's sin. I certainly don't approve of many things my kids do, but they're my kids and I try and make sure they know my love for them is unconditional - just like God's love is for your friend and his parents. Perhaps with time they'll come around, or perhaps someone needs to point out some of these things to them that have been said to you. Meanwhile, keep on loving and encouraging your friend.

Steve

[NeedKarma]

Sweetsorrow, mostly good answers here - except for that one about Ted Haggard.

There is a way to successfully cure someone of homosexuality and you think that's a bad answer? C'mon, let's show all the possibilities here, open your eyes.

[speechlesstx]

There is a way to succesfully cure someone of homosexuality and you think that's a bad answer? C'mon, let's show all the possibilities here, open your eyes.

How about treating a post with the respect and sensitivity it deserves for a change, eh? You have more than enough opportunities to mock Christians, this was not the time.

[NeedKarma]

You are very sensitive. Someone was converted, this is a viable option here. All they would have to do is contact the same therapy outfit that Mr. Haggard used.

P.S. I've seen the respect you show for anything related to Democrats - people in glass houses...

[speechlesstx]

You are very sensitive. Someone was converted, this is a viable option here. All they would have to do is contact the same therapy outfit that Mr. Haggard used.

P.S. I've seen the respect you show for anything related to Democrats - people in glass houses......

At least I know WHEN to be sensitive. NK, that was just one more of your Haggard jokes, like those here and here. What's funny here though (in a sad sort of way) is after all the grief Christians get from skeptics over their insensitivity and 'bigotry' is to see a skeptic making insensitive jokes on a post that called for sensitivity and understanding.

As for my alleged disrespect for "anything related to Democrats," when one does something worthy of respect I have and will gladly give them that respect.

[NeedKarma]

As for my alleged disrespect for "anything related to Democrats," when one does something worthy of respect I have and will gladly give them that respect.

dude you are so blind you can't even see why that statement makes you look bad. :)

[speechlesstx]

dude you are so blind you can't even see why that statement makes you look bad. :)

Can you really not understand why you should avoid calling others 'blind'? I have no qualms whatsoever about what I said, maybe some day you'll figure it out. At least I came to this post to offer support, not jokes.