 |
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 29, 2010, 07:31 AM
|
|
100 amp sub panel
I see this has been asked several times already. So one more time won't hurt.
Here is the scenario. I've added a 900 square ft. addition to the back of my attatched garage. I piped 1 1/2" conduit from the main 200 amp panel to the location of the new 100 amp sub panel. This addition is a mother in law suite complete with gas furnace and 1 1/2 ton a/c. seeing how this is in conduit am I correct in not using ser 2/2/2/4?
What are my options? Are there any pro's to using copper instead on aluminium? The existing panel has a vacant 100 amp breaker which I will use to feed the sub panel.
On a side note this is in ohio- does every breaker other than gfi protected need to be arc fault?
Thanks
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Jan 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
|
|
You are correct, you will not want to pul SER cable through conduit.
You can use 3- #2 Al XHHW and 1 # AL XHHW pulled through the conduit.
AFCI must be used to protect all 120 volt outlets (the word "outlets" means all receptacles, lighting fixtures, and smoke detectors) located in, and I quote from the 2008 NEC:
"family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms, or areas".
GFI protection covers the remaining areas of a home, such as kitchens, bathrooms, unfinished basements, garages.
Would be good to consult with your local city or state code for changes or waivers to the national electric code.
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 29, 2010, 06:04 PM
|
|
 Originally Posted by tkrussell
You are correct, you will not want to pul SER cable thru conduit.
You can use 3- #2 Al XHHW and 1 # AL XHHW pulled thru the conduit.
AFCI must be used to protect all 120 volt outlets (the word "outlets" means all receptacles, lighting fixtures, and smoke detectors) located in, and I quote from the 2008 NEC:
"family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms, or areas".
GFI protection covers the remaining areas of a home, such as kitchens, bathrooms, unfinished basements, garages.
Would be good to consult with your local city or state code for changes or waivers to the national electric code.
All I ever hear about these arc fault breakers is how they are a nusiance and very exspensive.
So even dedicated outlets for fridge and microwave etc need to be arc fault?
Seeing how gfi would be cheaper, is that the wrong way of thinking?
I suppose I could change the breakers afer inspection:)
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 29, 2010, 06:07 PM
|
|
Also, I've been informed that I will need to run 3-3-3-6 copper or #1 AL
Because supposedly 2-2-2-4 AL is not sufficient, a joke in my eyes.
|
|
 |
Printers & Electronics Expert
|
|
Jan 29, 2010, 06:57 PM
|
|
GFCI and Arc Fault are looking for very different conditions.
A GFCI is looking for a difference of current between the hot and neutral conductors. If the amperage has a difference of 0.6 of an amp, it cuts the circuit off. Its purpose is to protect a person from getting electrocuted.
An Arc Fault is looking for the electrical signature caused by an arc.
Its purpose is to protect against fire. Arcs can generate heat and spark.
If an Arc Fault is constantly tripping, then you need to get busy and take a long hard look at the conductors and splices served by that breaker.
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 30, 2010, 05:35 AM
|
|
So if I have an outlet dedicated to a microwave above the stove is it a gfi or an arc fault?
Likewise for a disposal and dishwasher? Fridge? Outlet for a washing machine?
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Jan 30, 2010, 05:37 AM
|
|
No, the one exception in the kitchen is the refrigerator, does not need to be GFI or AFCI protected.
Anything safety related can be a nuisance. I personally do not have nay experience with AFCI breakers, don't do any residential work lately. I know GFI were a problem in the beginning, but they have gotten much better, that if it trips, there is a real problem, usually because of a cord or an appliance that got wet.
Suing GFI receptacles help just protect the device plugged in, and not the entire circuit.
An AFCI will see an arc or spark in a loose connection, switch, or light. These can be eliminated, but sometimes like looking for the needle in a haystack. AFCI was originally proposed to help shut off power when arcing was occurring on lamp and appliance cords, that get stuck behind furniture and dry out and the insulation cracks and falls off.
Currently, as far as I know, only breaker type AFCI devices are made. AFCI receptacles have not be marketed yet, for some reason. Getting the protection closer to the usage will help with nuisance trips.
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Jan 30, 2010, 05:39 AM
|
|
Also,
 Originally Posted by dan o
so if i have an outlet dedicated to a microwave above the stove is it a gfi or an arc fault?
likewise for a disposal and dishwasher? fridge? outlet for a washing machine?
No, GFI not needed.
The kitchen counter and other general purpose outlets, not specific stationary appliances.
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 30, 2010, 10:52 AM
|
|
 Originally Posted by tkrussell
Also,
No, GFI not needed.
The kitchen counter and other general purpose outlets, not specific stationary appliances.
I understand that your stating the fridge does not need to be gfi-
But under the new code wouldn't it need to be an afci breaker?
My same question arises for the over the stove microwave and if the disposal is not hard wired that question arises also
Thanks
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Jan 30, 2010, 11:59 AM
|
|
No the kitchen appliances do not need any special protection, including AFCI, as they are not listed in the NEC requirements I posted:
"family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms, or areas".
|
|
 |
New Member
|
|
Jan 31, 2010, 06:29 PM
|
|
Not to beat a dead horse but how about the outlet for a washing machine in the laundry rm? And the light fixture in the laundry rm?
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Feb 1, 2010, 05:51 AM
|
|
The washer does not need AFCI at all or GFI protection, generally.
If the washer is in an unfinished basement, or within 6 feet of a sink, it will need GFI protection.
The light does not need AFCI protection. It can be on a local lighting circuit that happens to be AFCI protected.
|
|
Question Tools |
Search this Question |
|
|
Add your answer here.
Check out some similar questions!
Updating service panel to 200 amp with feeder to 100 amp panel in old house
[ 8 Answers ]
I currently in the process of converting 1000 sq ft of attached garage into living space while doing this we are updating electrical service to 200 amp new service, there is 100 amp service in the old part of the house which will remain but need to be sub paneled from the new 200 amp service. I...
200 amp panel feeding a 100 amp panel roughly 130' away
[ 7 Answers ]
Hi all,
We are building a apartment above the garage,my question is what size wire do I need to run from the 200 amp panel to the 100 amp panel roughly 130' away?
I want to use aluminum wire as I think copper would be to costly.
Thanks for your help in advance,
Dude
:eek:
100 amp panel to 200 amp panel
[ 2 Answers ]
I currently have a home with 100 amp service to a 100 amp breaker box. The box is old and should be replaced, can I have a 200 amp box installed even though I only have 100 amp service?
100 amp sub panel from 200 amp main panel
[ 2 Answers ]
We have a 200 amp main panel. We added another floor and decided to add a new sub panel of 100 amps. Is this OK? Should the wire gage be different from 100 maps? Your help is appreciated.
100 amp panel to new 200 amp panel and sub panel
[ 3 Answers ]
I have a very small (1000sq feet) 1920 home in Northern New Jersey which 15 years ago was upgraded to breakers with a 100 amp panel. The whole house does have copper romex in it now, and I am adding a substantial addition (3000 sq feet) to the house and I want to put a sub panel in the new portion....
View more questions
Search
|